Oh My God...McCain could win if he picks Palin!!! - Page 37 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-31-2008, 02:01 AM   #541
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 02:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
clearly, Biden.

i know where you are going.
now, now
just simmer down and drink a couple more beers
__________________

__________________
deep is offline  
Old 08-31-2008, 02:01 AM   #542
ONE
love, blood, life
 
namkcuR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Kettering, Ohio
Posts: 10,290
Local Time: 05:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by No spoken words View Post
Everyone that disagrees with you, kind of simple terminology, no? And, to me, you are coming off like a lunatic. Lunatics usually do not recognize such behavior in themselves. You also spew a lot of nonsense, which makes me sad, since we lean the same way.

That is all, I will remove myself and go back where I belong.
I've never been called a lunatic by anyone before, nor have I been accused of spewing a lot of nonsense. I've been disagreed with by the conservatives[and some independents too sometimes] here to be sure, but never have such accusations been made against me. I don't appreciate it, because I really try not to be too attack-ish in here - in fact, outside of election season, I don't really post that much in here at all. There are people here who are a good deal more aggressive towards those they disagree with than I am, but I don't see anyone calling them lunatics - not that they should be called such, they're not lunatics anymore than I am, just people who feel passionate about their politics. I am sorry you feel this way. It's not the way I ever want to come off and frankly I'm a little taken aback by these accusations.
__________________

__________________
namkcuR is offline  
Old 08-31-2008, 02:04 AM   #543
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 02:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by namkcuR View Post
Maybe you're right, maybe those words turned a true statement into a false one. However, like others have said, just because one supports abortion in the cases of rape and incest only does not mean one is pro-choice.

Did I say he was pro-choice?

or did I say:

1. consistently pro-life for his whole political career,


was 1/2 wrong
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 08-31-2008, 02:04 AM   #544
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 05:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
now, now
just simmer down and drink a couple more beers


i had a cocktail and some white wine.

beer is for burpy, farty, straight boys.



my favorite kind!
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 08-31-2008, 02:05 AM   #545
ONE
love, blood, life
 
namkcuR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Kettering, Ohio
Posts: 10,290
Local Time: 05:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
Did I say he was pro-choice?

or did I say:

1. consistently pro-life for his whole political career,


was 1/2 wrong
Ok, good enough for me. I see no point in arguing further.
__________________
namkcuR is offline  
Old 08-31-2008, 02:07 AM   #546
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
U2DMfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: It's Inside A Black Hole
Posts: 6,637
Local Time: 04:00 AM
I guess I'll put my political hack hat on.

I tend to think it was a clever pick that might very well backfire, remains to be seen.
If I were a betting man, I'd say it's not going to matter. This election is a referendum on Obama. If people deem him fit to lead, he'll win going away. If not, then McCain always was a safe, default alternative choice. In many respects, I don't even believe that issues make a big difference in this particular election. The wings and the hardcore camps are set and always were, many swing voters are still scratching their heads.

All a VP pick really needs to be is
1. a non-embarassment.
2. ready to be President yesterday

8 of 43 (18%) Presidents didn't finish their terms.
So, deep, you are looking for a pecentage, how about 15-20%?

The argument that Palin is not ready to President from the hardcore Obama base is humorous at best. While it's probably true, it's seen as a two faced stance in light of Obama's biggest glaring problem. I think the best 'response' to this pick is to say "well, I guess the Republicans have finally admitted that you don't need to be in DC for decades to be President" STICK with that message, repeat it ad nauseum and leave it alone otherwise. It neutralizes the experience argument and it makes the pick itself look even more Quayle-esque.

The problem with DC over the recent years has nothing to do with liberal or conservative politics specifically IMO, there are enough balances in place that one should not be able to extert that much influence. The problem has been with this President and the competency of his cabinet, himself and the unilateral extension of executive power.

I firmly believe the undecided voters think this is essentially issue #1.
As in "Give me fairly moderate but competent leadership willing to work out compromises"
McCain and Obama both have their downsides in this light, as would anyone else. The best thing McCain did with the Palin pick was try and create a little distance from the staunch Bushism that he has become plagued with while Obama, as much as he likes to portray himself as a change agent, has addressed an admitted problem with Biden.

In the end, I think it's a wash. The VP whole ordeal.
However, there is one interesting thing I'd like to last touch on.
Obama's biggest problem, aside from the experience argument (and perhaps somewhat hand in hand with that issue) is his national persona. He was always going to be succeptable to the attack machine molding him or painting him into a charicature.
And so is Palin. So again, that is a bit of a neutralizer, although I still believe that only the top of the ticket is going to matter.

In 2004, John Edwards didn't help John Kerry and in 2000 Joe Lieberman didn't help Al Gore. As much as I truly like Joe Biden, I doubt he helps Obama all that much (maybe in NE PA, where Obama lost 3-1 to Hills, if anywhere).

Now to come full circle, all the VP pick really needs to be is a non-embarassment and ready to be President. If Obama is arguing that he is ready, then why can't Palin be ready? So that, IMO, is a neutralized argument to the swing voters . So that leaves the embarassment factor. Obama is getting put through the ringer (as he always was going to be) and mostly, what damage there was going to be, is done. So in sum, I think that even though I believe I can make a pretty objective argument than Palin was a clever but non-important pick, she still could serve to embarass McCain. Which, if you wanted to argue, makes it a questionable choice aside from all the rest. It is a risk if because of this alone. Sometimes risks can pay off. Why did he take the risk? I don't even have my head wrapped around it yet.
__________________
U2DMfan is offline  
Old 08-31-2008, 02:12 AM   #547
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 05:00 AM
i still think that everyone who thought Obama was too risky, was too inexperience, and should have waited until '12 and/or '16 and was leaning McCain, needs to stop and think about what McCain's VP pick says about him, and about what he, McCain, thinks about you.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 08-31-2008, 02:14 AM   #548
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
U2DMfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: It's Inside A Black Hole
Posts: 6,637
Local Time: 04:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post

again, this is a media stunt. a super-cynical media stunt.
Do you think it's going to work though?
I tend to agree but any VP choice is a stunt of sorts.

I just can't see THE reason he chose her.
Right now I am thinking his 'pool' of choices was so thin, she may have in fact been the best choice for him.

He couldn't pick a pro-choice candidate, period.
I don't know that there were many better choices in that light.

Romney, as much as conservatives are loathe to admit, has the mormonism and the flip floppery hanging around his neck. As silly as the Kerry "flip-flopper" charge was (silly nuance, eh?) I think they believed it.

I am still trying to wrap my head around this choice.
I think there is something else here, honestly.
I almost think the fact she has a son going to Iraq might have been the #1 factor, although, I don't even know if I'm prepared to make that argument.
__________________
U2DMfan is offline  
Old 08-31-2008, 02:22 AM   #549
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 02:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by U2DMfan View Post
I guess I'll put my political hack hat on.

I tend to think it was a clever pick that might very well backfire, remains to be seen.
If I were a betting man, I'd say it's not going to matter. This election is a referendum on Obama. If people deem him fit to lead, he'll win going away. If not, then McCain always was a safe, default alternative choice. In many respects, I don't even believe that issues make a big difference in this particular election. The wings and the hardcore camps are set and always were, many swing voters are still scratching their heads.

All a VP pick really needs to be is
1. a non-embarassment.
2. ready to be President yesterday

8 of 43 (18%) Presidents didn't finish their terms.
So, deep, you are looking for a pecentage, how about 15-20%?

The argument that Palin is not ready to President from the hardcore Obama base is humorous at best. While it's probably true, it's seen as a two faced stance in light of Obama's biggest glaring problem. I think the best 'response' to this pick is to say "well, I guess the Republicans have finally admitted that you don't need to be in DC for decades to be President" STICK with that message, repeat it ad nauseum and leave it alone otherwise. It neutralizes the experience argument and it makes the pick itself look even more Quayle-esque.

The problem with DC over the recent years has nothing to do with liberal or conservative politics specifically IMO, there are enough balances in place that one should not be able to extert that much influence. The problem has been with this President and the competency of his cabinet, himself and the unilateral extension of executive power.

I firmly believe the undecided voters think this is essentially issue #1.
As in "Give me fairly moderate but competent leadership willing to work out compromises"
McCain and Obama both have their downsides in this light, as would anyone else. The best thing McCain did with the Palin pick was try and create a little distance from the staunch Bushism that he has become plagued with while Obama, as much as he likes to portray himself as a change agent, has addressed an admitted problem with Biden.

In the end, I think it's a wash. The VP whole ordeal.
However, there is one interesting thing I'd like to last touch on.
Obama's biggest problem, aside from the experience argument (and perhaps somewhat hand in hand with that issue) is his national persona. He was always going to be succeptable to the attack machine molding him or painting him into a charicature.
And so is Palin. So again, that is a bit of a neutralizer, although I still believe that only the top of the ticket is going to matter.

In 2004, John Edwards didn't help John Kerry and in 2000 Joe Lieberman didn't help Al Gore. As much as I truly like Joe Biden, I doubt he helps Obama all that much (maybe in NE PA, where Obama lost 3-1 to Hills, if anywhere).

Now to come full circle, all the VP pick really needs to be is a non-embarassment and ready to be President. If Obama is arguing that he is ready, then why can't Palin be ready? So that, IMO, is a neutralized argument to the swing voters . So that leaves the embarassment factor. Obama is getting put through the ringer (as he always was going to be) and mostly, what damage there was going to be, is done. So in sum, I think that even though I believe I can make a pretty objective argument than Palin was a clever but non-important pick, she still could serve to embarass McCain. Which, if you wanted to argue, makes it a questionable choice aside from all the rest. It is a risk if because of this alone. Sometimes risks can pay off. Why did he take the risk? I don't even have my head wrapped around it yet.
this seems like a pretty good assessment.
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 08-31-2008, 02:23 AM   #550
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 02:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
i still think that everyone who thought Obama was too risky, was too inexperience, and should have waited until '12 and/or '16 and was leaning McCain, needs to stop and think about what McCain's VP pick says about him, and about what he, McCain, thinks about you.
my turn

to say I have no idea what you are trying to say here
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 08-31-2008, 02:26 AM   #551
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 05:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by U2DMfan View Post
Do you think it's going to work though?


i doubt it.

but then, i doubted GWB would be elected to a first, let alone a second, term.

it smells of desperation to me. and i think once the weirdness of the whole thing wears off, and once we learn more about her, it's going to look foolish.

but, as i've said, i've misunderestimated before.

but this pick is just ... what's painful about it is watching people fall for the abject cynicism of the whole thing.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 08-31-2008, 02:30 AM   #552
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 05:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
my turn

to say I have no idea what you are trying to say here


it says that McCain is desperate

it says that he doesn't believe the main charge he's using against Obama (inexperience)

it says that he has a lower opinion of women than we thought

it says that he doesn't think he needs a VP

and it says that he thinks you're an idiot if you fall for all this.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 08-31-2008, 02:35 AM   #553
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 02:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by U2DMfan View Post
Do you think it's going to work though?
I tend to agree but any VP choice is a stunt of sorts.

I just can't see THE reason he chose her.
Right now I am thinking his 'pool' of choices was so thin, she may have in fact been the best choice for him.

He couldn't pick a pro-choice candidate, period.
I don't know that there were many better choices in that light.

Romney, as much as conservatives are loathe to admit, has the mormonism and the flip floppery hanging around his neck. As silly as the Kerry "flip-flopper" charge was (silly nuance, eh?) I think they believed it.

I am still trying to wrap my head around this choice.
I think there is something else here, honestly.
I almost think the fact she has a son going to Iraq might have been the #1 factor, although, I don't even know if I'm prepared to make that argument.
McCain is a strong enough force on his own

he is the happy warrior, the lone wolf
he has even said, if he was elected, he would go to congress once a week
and take questions from the well
much like the Brittish P M.

he is not like W or Obama,
the is no readiness perception problem

the polls all said the majority of the people believe he is ready to be President.

Ridge, aside from being pro-choice was a Bush Cabinet appointee
Romney wrapped himself around the Bush people in the primaries

McCain does not need to confirm Bush 3 label


Palmanety? is a weak suck, and only got into office because Minn has two Dem parties to split the ticket

Palin, is far removed from Bush, has a 80% approval rating, and yes she is a woman. I think she is smart enough not to do any major blunders. We will see.
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 08-31-2008, 02:37 AM   #554
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
U2DMfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: It's Inside A Black Hole
Posts: 6,637
Local Time: 04:00 AM
Deep, did you support McCain in 2000, like I did?

And if so, are you as disgusted with his 'turn' as I am?
__________________
U2DMfan is offline  
Old 08-31-2008, 02:39 AM   #555
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 02:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
it says that McCain is desperate

1. it says that he doesn't believe the main charge he's using against Obama (inexperience)

2. it says that he has a lower opinion of women than we thought

3. it says that he doesn't think he needs a VP

4. and it says that he thinks you're an idiot if you fall for all this.
all that writing
and you still didn't explain

Quote:
and should have waited until '12 and/or '16 and was leaning McCain
wtf is a '12 and/or '16 ?








edit to add

3. is a good thing.

I prefer the President to be competent and not need a co-President like Bush-Cheney.

FDR changed them like he changed his socks.
__________________

__________________
deep is offline  
 

Tags
john mccain, sarah palin

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com