Oh My God...McCain could win if he picks Palin!!! - Page 33 - U2 Feedback

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Old 08-30-2008, 10:19 PM   #481
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Just out of curiousity, do you think Abraham Lincoln was qualified to run for President in 1860? His elected office experience at the time was 8 years of being a state representive from sangamon county Illinois with a population of around 10,000 people. He did have some national experience serving in the US House of Representitives from the 7th district in Illinois for just one term of 2 years. 7th district in Illinois at that time had about 25,000 people. He held those positions in the 1830s and 1840s, and held no elected office in government for over 10 years prior to the election of 1860.
Absolutely. In terms of state legislature he had around the same amount of time in office as Obama. Some Republicans have mentioned Obama's time in the state legislature as not enough experience. I could say the same thing about Lincoln, and he turned out to be our greatest President. Therefore, it would just be a pointless debate between both sides, so I'm not going to comment on that. As for the rest of the things you mentioned (and even the state legislature situation), I truly don't think it's something that one can even compare. Lincoln was Commander in Chief over 150 years ago. The United States looked completely different then in terms of size and other issues. The political campaigns and issues faced then were often vastly different than the ones facing us right now, and voters, themselves, were far different than today. I really can't see a comparison. I understand, to be clear, the point you're trying to make, but I don't think in today's political climate it's relevant to any of the candidates.
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:20 PM   #482
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You miss the point(maybe on purpose). It wasn't just a 'look how great Obama is' post. It was a 'running a presidential campaign IS executive experience' post.
Well, what about when he announced that he was running for President at the start of 2007, when he had only been a Senator for two years. Do you think he was qualified in January 2007 to be President of the United States?
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:20 PM   #483
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It's an interesting game of chess.

Obama picks Biden in an attempt to take the sting out of lack-of-experience criticisms, but in doing so also neutralises the 'McCain too old to be President' argument.

McCain then picks Palin to neutralise the 'not a true conservative' argument, and, arguably, steal some of the more centrist or conservative-leaning Hillary voters, but in doing so runs the risk of re-opening the 'McCain too old and too many health issues to be President' argument and adds a new twist - 'Are you telling me if McCain dies, the world will be run by a former town major?'. But, the Dems will be wary of raising that line again, lest it re-opens the 'But hold on. Should the world be run by a guy that until 2 years ago was a common-or-garden Illinois state legislator?' angle.

Of course, only the naive would suppose that both sides haven't done all of these calculations many times, but only one side will ultimately prevail.
that's what i just said, except in about 32479263827364 more words.

let's make out.
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:21 PM   #484
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Well, what about when he announced that he was running for President at the start of 2007, when he had only been a Senator for two years. Do you think he was qualified in January 2007 to be President of the United States?
Yes, but then again, I think you and I measure 'qualified' in different ways.
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:22 PM   #485
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Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
Obama's experience, or lack thereof, is a bigger issue than Palin's.
Aha.

But you are forgetting your Machiavelli:-

"Men in general judge more from appearances than from reality"
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:23 PM   #486
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I f'ing hate this place sometimes...
I gotta agree with you on this. But I find virtually any political forum is pretty much the same during presidential campaigns (not that they are all biased toward one party, but that so many normally fairly decent people become vile).

I'm making sure to limit my time here this time around -- both to avoid the nastiness from others and also to avoid behaviour in myself that I despise.

As for attacks by one side on the other, my theory is attack ads are ads the other guy runs.
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:23 PM   #487
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Will they have a similar choice re: Palin? Do people vote for the ticket or the nominee alone?
The nominee.
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:27 PM   #488
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Aha.

But you are forgetting your Machiavelli:-

"Men in general judge more from appearances than from reality"
That could cut both ways



The sad thing is that while Obama seems to be an agnostic or atheist (that vouches for the community benefit of church) being labelled as such would be worse than being slurred as a Muslim.
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:27 PM   #489
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Absolutely. In terms of state legislature he had around the same amount of time in office as Obama. Some Republicans have mentioned Obama's time in the state legislature as not enough experience. I could say the same thing about Lincoln, and he turned out to be our greatest President. Therefore, it would just be a pointless debate between both sides, so I'm not going to comment on that. As for the rest of the things you mentioned (and even the state legislature situation), I truly don't think it's something that one can even compare. Lincoln was Commander in Chief over 150 years ago. The United States looked completely different then in terms of size and other issues. The political campaigns and issues faced then were often vastly different than the ones facing us right now, and voters, themselves, were far different than today. I really can't see a comparison. I understand, to be clear, the point you're trying to make, but I don't think in today's political climate it's relevant to any of the candidates.
Ahh, if it was x number of years ago it does not count?!?! How can you say that being a state representive qualifies someone to be President, but being a Mayor and a Governor is not qualification to be President?

Please, don't bring up the size of Alaska today, because Illinois in Lincolns time, could be regarded as the Alaska of his day. Chicago had a population of 250 when Lincoln first ran for elective office in Illinois.
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:28 PM   #490
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Originally Posted by namkcuR View Post
You miss the point(maybe on purpose). It wasn't just a 'look how great Obama is' post. It was a 'running a presidential campaign IS executive experience' post.
On the job training ???
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:29 PM   #491
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Originally Posted by Strongbow View Post
Ahh, if it was x number of years ago it does not count?!?! How can you say that being a state representive qualifies someone to be President, but being a Mayor and a Governor is not qualification to be President?

Please, don't bring up the size of Alaska today, because Illinois in Lincolns time, could be regarded as the Alaska of his day. Chicago had a population of 250 when Lincoln first ran for elective office in Illinois.
I'm not bringing up anything, because as I already said, you can't compare the political landscape, and more importantly, the politicans of today's world to those of the world of the mid 1800s, in my opinion. As I've said I see your point, and I disagree. We're not going to convince each other, so I suggest we stop wasting time trying.
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:30 PM   #492
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Yes, but then again, I think you and I measure 'qualified' in different ways.
Ok, when precisely did Obama become Qualified to be President. For you its obviously January 2007 or earlier? I'd like you state a point in time.

If you don't think Sarah Palin is qualified to be President, how much further does she have to go?
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:34 PM   #493
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I'm not bringing up anything, because as I already said, you can't compare the political landscape, and more importantly, the politicans of today's world to those of the world of the mid 1800s, in my opinion. As I've said I see your point, and I disagree. We're not going to convince each other, so I suggest we stop wasting time trying.
Well, its the same country, same constitution(but with more amendments), same system of government.

Tell me, what point in time are we allowed to go back to?
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:35 PM   #494
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Originally Posted by Bluer White View Post
The nominee.
Normally, I would tend to agree with you. I do wonder, though, if this trend will apply to the McCain/Palin ticket, given, fair or unfair, McCain's age and health concerns. Statistically speaking, McCain is far more likely than Obama to die in office. To get it out of the way, most staunch Conservatives are going to vote Republican no matter what, as most staunch Liberals will vote for the Democrat, regardless. However, the biggest group(s) at play in this election are the moderate and independent voters. They are likely looking carefully at both candidates. I would assume that they are also looking closer at McCain's VP pick given the reasons I stated earlier. That's not to say they're not looking at Biden thoroughly either, it's just a simple fact of life that the VP of an older candidate is probably looked at with more concern than that of a younger one. When moderates and independents, who usually tend to have a more centrist view on most issues, see a heavily Conservative person, with little to no positions or policy-making decisions on national issues, I think they might be less likely to support that ticket.
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:37 PM   #495
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The nominee.
So then the voters will have a chance to voice their opinion regarding Obama's readiness in November, but nobody will have a democratic referendum on Palin's should she become President someday?
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