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Old 08-30-2008, 09:30 PM   #451
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So, you dismiss the executive experience of the only woman in the race, while glossing over the lack of said experience for the three male candidates.

Youse Dems aren't very consistent, are you?
Have you not read my previous posts? I'm not just talking about national governing experience. I'm talking about national policy-making experience which to me counts for far more. Obama, Biden, and McCain all have experience making policy decisions on a national level. They've all studied, debated, and voted on issues that affect the entire nation. A governor only focuses on issues that affect his/her state. I'm not saying a governor is inherently unqualified to be president, but until they've proven themselves on a national level through primary and general election campaigns they are at a disadvantage. Bill Clinton, for example, proved through the long campaign process in 1992 that he understood the issues that faced the entire nation and that he was capable of being president. He debated, he created his policies and laid out his plan for the nation. He also is far more highly educated than Palin. I'm not saying she's not intelligent, but a person with a Bachelor's degree in Journalism, who has never studied government or the political system in higher learning, has no business being Commander in Chief.
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Old 08-30-2008, 09:37 PM   #452
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Have you not read my previous posts? I'm not just talking about national governing experience. I'm talking about national policy-making experience which to me counts for far more. Obama, Biden, and McCain all have experience making policy decisions on a national level. They've all studied, debated, and voted on issues that affect the entire nation. A governor only focuses on issues that affect his/her state. I'm not saying a governor is inherently unqualified to be president, but until they've proven themselves on a national level through primary and general election campaigns they are at a disadvantage. Bill Clinton, for example, proved through the long campaign process in 1992 that he understood the issues that faced the entire nation and that he was capable of being president. He debated, he created his policies and laid out his plan for the nation. He also is far more highly educated than Palin. I'm not saying she's not intelligent, but a person with a Bachelor's degree in Journalism, who has never studied government or the political system in higher learning, has no business being Commander in Chief.
I respectfully diaagree. I see absolutely no reason why someone who has studied government or the political system in higher learning should be ANY more qualified to be President, as opposed to someone who has studied, say, engineering, science or economics. Or even someone who has studied nothing (in the formal sense). In fact, most of the people I know with masters degrees in politics and the like would be pretty useless in a real political job. They wouldn't be prepared to get their hands dirty, frankly.

The UK had a Prime Minister as recently as 1990-1997 who had NO DEGREE WHATEVER - not even a Bachelor's degree.

Frankly, one of the things that's wrong with politics, and not just in the US - is too many policy wonks, lobbyists and over-qualified political theorists.

Having said that, I accept that Clinton, though a true borne policy wonk, was a pretty good President. And one of the things that helped him become a good President was that, like Palin, he had the very, very valuable experience of running a state.
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Old 08-30-2008, 09:38 PM   #453
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I respectfully diaagree. I see absolutely no reason why someone who has never studied government or the political system in higher learning should be ANY more qualified to be President, as opposed to someone who has studied, say, engineering, science or economics. Or even someone who has studied nothing (in the formal sense). In fact, most of the people I know with masters degrees in politics and the like would be pretty useless in a real political job. They wouldn't be prepared to get their hands dirty, frankly.

The UK had a Prime Minister as recently as 1990-1997 who had NO DEGREE WHATEVER - not even a Bachelor's degree.

Frankly, one of the things that's wrong with politics, and not just in the US - is too many policy wonks, lobbyists and over-qualified political theorists.

Having said that, I accept that Clinton, though a true borne policy wonk, was a pretty good President. And one of the things that helped him become a good President was that, like Palin, he had the very, very valuable experience of running a state.
I see your point as well, and like you said, we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Old 08-30-2008, 09:43 PM   #454
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Old 08-30-2008, 09:48 PM   #455
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I believe your post included references to opposing BIG OIL. And Alaska doesn't collect income tax, so what tax payers was she protecting? And how about some examples of the "wasteful spending" she cut?


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For starters:

She stopped Ted Stevens "Bridge To No Where" a Republican.
She stopped taking a limo to work to save the tax payers money.

She cut other wasteful spending of the tax payers money.

With the money she saved the tax payers she put it into a savings account for the state of Alaska.

The same way Bobby Jindal cleaned uo La., she has cleaned up Alaska.
And when the next hurricane hits La, at least those citizens under a Rep Gov,-Jindal will be able to take care of themselves.

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Old 08-30-2008, 09:50 PM   #456
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And Alaska doesn't collect income tax,
Lucky bastards. I think I'm moving to Alaska.
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Old 08-30-2008, 09:55 PM   #457
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Executive experience is defined as having run a state or a business, right?

A presidential campaign is a business, you know. A business of which the candidate, namely Obama or McCain, is the CEO. They're big businesses with departments for communications/speechwriting, advertising, policy, scheduling, fundraising, etc etc. Each of the departments has a director, usually chosen and appointed by the candidate him/herself. Decisions are made every day, and the biggest/most important ones are no doubt made by the head honcho - the candidate. It's a business and the candidate - Obama or McCain - is running the whole show, has the final say on everything and bears the ultimate responsibility and/or blame for everything.

Considering that this business of Obama's has raised anywhere from 265 to 340 million dollars so far this election cycle(aka since its foundation) and has in the neighborhood of 60 to 70 million dollars on hand right now, and considering it managed to fill a stadium with 84,000 people the other night to support it, and since it has the support of probably 55-60 million people nationwide, and since he has been complimented by many for how well he's run his campaign, I'd say he's doing a hell of a job running this business of his, and since this business will be nearly two years old when all is said and done, I'd say that's some valuable executive experience.

And I don't know the exact numbers for McCain, but if he's still here, I guess he's doing an ok job(though not as good as Obama) running his business too.
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Old 08-30-2008, 09:56 PM   #458
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Lucky bastards. I think I'm moving to Alaska.
mass is putting it up for a referendum. it would cut the state budget by approximately $12 billion.
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Old 08-30-2008, 09:56 PM   #459
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Originally Posted by martha View Post
I believe your post included references to opposing BIG OIL. And Alaska doesn't collect income tax, so what tax payers was she protecting? And how about some examples of the "wasteful spending" she cut?

see limo example.

and if time permits i will find those items for you or perhaps a fair and balanced news network will point out the truth of her record.

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Old 08-30-2008, 09:57 PM   #460
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Well, anyway, one thing that does seem to lend some degree of credence to the posts of the Obama supporters here is the reaction of former Bush speechwriter David Frum:-

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David Frum, President George W Bush’s former speech-writer, warned: “The McCain campaign’s slogan is ‘country first’. If it were your decision, and you were putting your country first, would you put an untested small-town mayor a heartbeat from the presidency?”
John McCain met running mate Sarah Palin just once - Times Online
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:02 PM   #461
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I am not sure the campaign process makes one ready for the presidency. One could argue that a principal of a building could become president due to leadership experience.

You cannot discount that executive leadership, which she posesses is more than the other candidates.

However, I would also weigh this with the fact that there are international concerns that Biden and McCain are probably better prepared for than she would be.

Legislative experience can also be considered helpful in that whomever the President is is going to need to understand the ins and outs of congress.

She is not qualified in these areas, so what does it boil down to? Is her executive experience strong enough to make me want to ignore the experience of Obama/Biden.

Realistically, McCain's pick is somewhat brialliant because if she is attacked on this, it ioens the door to attack Obama. Something the Dems do not want.

Ideally, this race may boil down to the issues.
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:04 PM   #462
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Well, anyway, one thing that does seem to lend some degree of credence to the posts of the Obama supporters here is the reaction of former Bush speechwriter David Frum:-


John McCain met running mate Sarah Palin just once - Times Online
i know a die-hard conservative who is not thrilled with the strength of either candidate to begin with, but has been completely turned off by mccain's vp selection, describing it as "purely political." and even though this person "hates" joe biden, said individual would rather have biden directing two wars than a relatively green governor from alaska. this person thought it irresponsible for someone of mccain's age and health (two time skin cancer survivor) to put someone like palin a proverbial heartbeat away from the presidency.

certainly not everyone's opinion, but i doubt that it is completely isolated.
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:04 PM   #463
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Realistically, McCain's pick is somewhat brialliant because if she is attacked on this, it ioens the door to attack Obama.
Because this door has been so far closed and we have not heard a single attack on Obama's experience?
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:06 PM   #464
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Because this door has been so far closed and we have not heard a single attack on Obama's experience?
right - on the other hand, it may take away the republicans' ability to attack obama, for fear of reprisal on palin.
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:06 PM   #465
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Martha,

I do believe she did something to tax the oil industry to give money back to the people of Alaska, or something....I am not sure....but she did mention something along those lines.
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