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Old 09-15-2003, 12:13 AM   #1
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OH God Noooooooooo....I cannot support Wesly Clark

Michael Moore to Wesley Clark: Run!

A Citizenís Appeal to a General in a Time of War (at Home)

September 12, 2003

Dear General Wesley Clark,

I've been meaning to write to you for some time. Two days after the Oscars, when I felt very alone and somewhat frightened by the level of hatred toward me for daring to suggest that we were being led into war for "fictitious reasons," one person stuck his neck out and came to my defense on national television.

And that person was you.

Aaron Brown had just finished interviewing me by satellite on CNN, and I had made a crack about me being "the only non-general allowed on CNN all week." He ended the interview and then turned to you, as you were sitting at the desk with him. He asked you what you thought of this crazy guy, Michael Moore. And, although we were still in Week One of the war, you boldly said that my dissent was necessary and welcome, and you pointed out that I was against Bush and his "policies," not the kids in the service. I sat in Flint with the earpiece still in my ear and I was floored -- a GENERAL standing up for me and, in effect, for all the millions who were opposed to the war but had been bullied into silence.

Since that night, I have spent a lot of time checking you out. And what I've learned about you corresponds to my experience with you back in March. You seem to be a man of integrity. You seem not afraid to speak the truth. I liked your answer when you were asked your position on gun control: ďIf you are the type of person who likes assault weapons, there is a place for you -- the United States Army. We have them.Ē

In addition to being first in your class at West Point, a four star general from Arkansas, and the former Supreme Commander of NATO -- enough right there that should give pause to any peace-loving person -- I have discovered that...

1. You oppose the Patriot Act and would fight the expansion of its powers.

2. You are firmly pro-choice.

3. You filed an amicus brief with the Supreme Court in support of the University of Michigan's affirmative action case.

4. You would get rid of the Bush tax "cut" and make the rich pay their fair share.

5. You respect the views of our allies and want to work with them and with the rest of the international community.

6. And you oppose war. You have said that war should always be the "last resort" and that it is military men such as yourself who are the most for peace because it is YOU and your soldiers who have to do the dying. You find something unsettling about a commander-in-chief who dons a flight suit and pretends to be Top Gun, a stunt that dishonored those who have died in that flight suit in the service of their country.

General Clark, last night I finally got to meet you in person. I would like to share with others what I said to you privately: You may be the person who can defeat George W. Bush in next year's election.

This is not an endorsement. For me, it's too early for that. I have liked Howard Dean (in spite of his flawed positions in support of some capital punishment, his grade "A" rating from the NRA, and his opposition to cutting the Pentagon budget). And Dennis Kucinich is so committed to all the right stuff. We need candidates in this race who will say the things that need to be said, to push the pathetically lame Democratic Party into having a backbone -- or get out of the way and let us have a REAL second party on the ballot.

But right now, for the sake and survival of our very country, we need someone who is going to get The Job done, period. And that job, no matter whom I speak to across America -- be they leftie Green or conservative Democrat, and even many disgusted Republicans -- EVERYONE is of one mind as to what that job is:

Bush Must Go.

This is war, General, and it's Bush & Co.'s war on us. It's their war on the middle class, the poor, the environment, their war on women and their war against anyone around the world who doesn't accept total American domination. Yes, it's a war -- and we, the people, need a general to beat back those who have abused our Constitution and our basic sense of decency.

The General vs. the Texas Air National Guard deserter! I want to see that debate, and I know who the winner is going to be.

The other night, when you were on Bill Maher's show, he began by reading to you a quote from Howard Dean where he (Dean) tried to run away from the word "liberal." Maher said to you, so, General, do you want to run away from that word? Without missing a beat, you said "No!" and you reminded everyone that America was founded as a "liberal democracy." The audience went wild with applause.

That is what we have needed for a long time on our side -- guts. I am sure there are things you and I don't see eye to eye on, but now is the time for all good people from the far left to the middle of the road to bury the damn hatchet and get together behind someone who is not only good on the issues but can beat George W. Bush. And where I come from in the Midwest, General, I know you are the kind of candidate that the average American will vote for.

Michael Moore likes a general? I never thought I'd write these words. But desperate times call for desperate measures. I want to know more about you. I want your voice heard. I would like to see you in these debates. Then let the chips fall where they may -- and we'll all have a better idea of what to do. If you sit it out, then I think we all know what we are left with.

I am asking everyone I know to send an email to you now to encourage you to run, even if they aren't sure they would vote for you. (Wesley Clark's email address is: info@leadershipforamerica.org). None of us truly know how we will vote five months from now or a year from now. But we do know that this race needs a jolt -- and Bush needs to know that there is one person he won't be able to Dukakisize.

Take the plunge, General Clark. At the very least, the nation needs to hear what you know about what was really behind this invasion of Iraq and your fresh ideas of how we can live in a more peaceful world. Yes, your country needs you to perform one more act of brave service -- to help defeat an enemy from within, at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, an address that used to belong to "we, the people."


Michael Moore

Lottery # 275, U.S. military draft, 1972

Conscientious Objector applicant

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Old 09-15-2003, 01:04 AM   #2
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Michael Moore endorses ice cream and sex.

Will you be opposing them also?

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Old 09-15-2003, 01:16 AM   #3
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I'm like Moore, or should I say I sort of like him: I don't know anything else about Clark besides what I just read in this letter. That being said, I think I already like his chances against Bush. Watching that debate would be very entertaining indeed.
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Old 09-15-2003, 01:42 AM   #4
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I can't wait to see Bush in a debate, no matter who is opponent is.
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Old 09-15-2003, 02:54 AM   #5
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If Dean gets Clark for Vice President I'm 100% on board. But if Clark runs for President then I'm with him.
Clark in my eyes is looking like a saviour to me against Bush, I don't know why I just got that feeling.
If all else fails I'll vote for Dean.

Moore sucks by the way I just don't like his demeanor, this is coming from a moderate liberal.
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Old 09-15-2003, 05:48 AM   #6
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I saw that yesterday and didn't have time to post it in your honor lol. So really what do you think?
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Old 09-15-2003, 06:05 AM   #7
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I am not done being sick. It is forcing me to reevaluate where I thought I stand.

And Deep, if you are defending Michael Moore, then I am going to reevaluate even harder
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Old 09-15-2003, 06:06 AM   #8
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If you were to wake up some morning and find that Rumsfeld agreed with you on something as important as this, how would you feel?

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Old 09-15-2003, 06:13 AM   #9
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defenetly a shocking experience if somebody you absolutely disslike agrees with you. But since most of the time there is no black and white, no 100% right and 100% wrong it's not really surprising


p.s. no i don't stop being vegetarian just because Adolf Hitler was vegetarian too
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Old 09-15-2003, 10:14 AM   #10
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Dread, I was a little surprised at this myself. The way I look at it just because a political wacko or whatever is supporting a candidate really isn't a reason I can't. I honestly don't know alot about Michael Moore except for his speech at the Oscars. Since I personally don't want another four years of Bush I'm still hoping Clark will run. I'd rather have him in the White House, no matter who else is supporting him. It's not like it's the Klan or someone odious like that, or any other not-so-friendly local Dixiecrat. If it were one of these damn Dixiecrats...........geez, I know how you feel.
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Old 09-15-2003, 10:16 AM   #11
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I don't know much about Clark, but he is definitely eloquent (unlike some people), and a man of integrity who served his country, and continues to serve it. If he was on the bill as VP, say with Dean, I think that might be a force to be reckoned with.

One thing I will agree with Moore here is that Bush must go. I don't care who replaces him, as I doubt anybody could be worse.
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Old 09-15-2003, 10:20 AM   #12
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You know how I feel.

Screw Dean. Clark's the man.

General Wesley Clark for President
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Old 09-15-2003, 11:41 AM   #13
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Dreadsox, I would not evaluate an opinion of Clark on the basis of how an "outside" view interprets him. Certainly, what makes Clark so appealing to many people is that he appeals to a broad Democratic base, not just "New" Democrats or "Old" Democrats.

If you dislike Michael Moore, I can certainly understand that, but I wouldn't evaluate my opinion on the basis of what Moore said. Evaluate, rather, on what Clark says (or implies) himself.

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Old 09-15-2003, 01:23 PM   #14
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Originally posted by anitram
One thing I will agree with Moore here is that Bush must go. I don't care who replaces him, as I doubt anybody could be worse.
Come visit California next year, pick up a driver's license and register to vote. You can then pick your anybody-but-Bush Democrat in the 2004 election.
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Old 09-15-2003, 05:54 PM   #15
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Originally posted by Dreadsox

If you were to wake up some morning and find that Rumsfeld agreed with you on something as important as this, how would you feel?

I can understand where you are coming from , but it would never happen. Then I don't understand why you dislike MM? If your only contact was the AA i'd understand it but I'm sure you've researched him more before making an opinion. I think he comes across as a reasonable thinking American in BFC.

Also on another thread you said you may yet support GWB, how can you even consider that with shis stinking domestic policies? Clean Air Act = lowering standards for rebuilding plants, Healthy Forests = logging in previously forbidden national forests, I could and will go on aand on and on if you like.

You are the thinking type of person that the WORLD needs now.

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