Official Campaign 2008 Hot Stove Thread

[2861U2]

you have Trent Lott.

you have George Allen.

you have Jessie Helms.

you had Strom Thurmond.


and you gave us ads like this (black men are going to fuck white women!):

If you want to make this a debate about the party of racists, you better look at the other side as well, where...

you have Senator Byrd

you have Al Gore Sr.

you have Dick Gephardt

you have Jesse Jackson

http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock010603.asp



I pray it doesnt get to a point where you can't oppose a black Democrat without being called a racist.

 

[BVS]

I pray it doesnt get to a point where you can't oppose a black Democrat without being called a racist.

That was never stated.

 

[2861U2]

A
How do you know that far too many Americans like him only because he is new, young, and black?

Don't play dumb, sir

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=5fdb725401176dd024ae7dca247e336f

"The truth is, I don’t know much about his politics or how he will run the country (quite frankly I’m more worried about how the next episode of Heroes will play out). I do know that he has the same color skin as I do and, to me and other black people, that counts for something."

You see that? Whoever this kid is, he is more worried about a tv show than how Obama would run the country. But hey, he's black, so that's all that matters to get his vote.

Go ask some college kids. Better, go ask some black college kids. They don't know jack squat about the world of politics, and probably do not care to, but they love Obama because he is one of them. That is absolutely absurd.

 

[2861U2]

That was never stated.

I never said it was.

 

[phillyfan26]

Don't play dumb, sir

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=5fdb725401176dd024ae7dca247e336f

"The truth is, I don’t know much about his politics or how he will run the country (quite frankly I’m more worried about how the next episode of Heroes will play out). I do know that he has the same color skin as I do and, to me and other black people, that counts for something."

You see that? Whoever this kid is, he is more worried about a tv show than how Obama would run the country. But hey, he's black, so that's all that matters to get his vote.

Go ask some college kids. Better, go ask some black college kids. They don't know jack squat about the world of politics, and probably do not care to, but they love Obama because he is one of them. That is absolutely absurd.

You're starting to sound like Laura Ingraham now, which, if you have seen my posts, isn't a compliment.

And this post now hints at a bit of racism.

 

[Irvine511]

If you want to make this a debate about the party of racists, you better look at the other side as well, where...

you have Senator Byrd

you have Al Gore Sr.

you have Dick Gephardt

you have Jesse Jackson

http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock010603.asp



I pray it doesnt get to a point where you can't oppose a black Democrat without being called a racist.

it's all about policies, sweetpea. but, sure, i'll play along with your muckraking article that was written to make people like you feel better after the Trent Lott fiasco. there's virtually no substance there, just some gaffs and some ancient history. the fact remains about Affirmative Action and, yes, Immigration. the racists love the R's because the party's stances on these two issues are closest to their own. the only thing in this article are examples of Democrats using race to bait the opponent. it's a political tactic. and it works. you know why? because most minorities think the Republicans are a bunch of racists. why do you think that the vast, vast majority of black people vote Democratic? along with Latinos, Jews, gays, etc.?

firstly, Byrd is a leftover Dixiecrat -- the people who became, you guessed it, REPUBLICANS after LBJ rammed through the Civil Rights Act in 1964. ALL the southern racists went to the GOP, and what did LBJ himself say afterwards? "we've lost the south for a generation."

you're going to bring up AL GORE SR!?!?! gee, why not talk about the policies of the Whigs?

Gephardt? where?

and Jessie Jackson? yes, yes, we've all heard of "Hymie-town." but what specifically racist policies has Jackson endorced?

 

[Irvine511]

Go ask some college kids. Better, go ask some black college kids. They don't know jack squat about the world of politics, and probably do not care to, but they love Obama because he is one of them. That is absolutely absurd.

um, wow.

you freak out because i say that much of the Republican base is racist, and then you call black college kids ignorant, uninformed, and apolitical?

i'd report this post, but you're going to catch enough hell for it anyway.

 

[BVS]

Don't play dumb, sir

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=5fdb725401176dd024ae7dca247e336f

"The truth is, I don’t know much about his politics or how he will run the country (quite frankly I’m more worried about how the next episode of Heroes will play out). I do know that he has the same color skin as I do and, to me and other black people, that counts for something."

You see that? Whoever this kid is, he is more worried about a tv show than how Obama would run the country. But hey, he's black, so that's all that matters to get his vote.

Go ask some college kids. Better, go ask some black college kids. They don't know jack squat about the world of politics, and probably do not care to, but they love Obama because he is one of them. That is absolutely absurd.

Read your post. Very carefully. Now there are so many things I can say about this post, but I will refrain.

But do this. Read and insert 'white' and 'Rudy', or 'Mormon' and 'Romney' and tell me how it is any different.

 

[2861U2]

um, wow.

you freak out because i say that much of the Republican base is racist, and then you call black college kids ignorant, uninformed, and apolitical?

Ok, fair enough. Allow me to correct it, then.

Ask most college students (especially black ones) who don't know anything about politics who they are supporting. When they say Obama, ask them why.

Actually, you dont have to do that. I've encountered plenty of them here at school, so take my word for it. People don't care. They like Obama because his black. There's no getting around it.

 

[phillyfan26]

Ask most college students (especially black ones) who don't know anything about politics who they are supporting.

If they don't know anything about politics, what does race have to do with it?

 

[BVS]

Ok, fair enough. Allow me to correct it, then.

Ask most college students (especially black ones) who don't know anything about politics who they are supporting. When they say Obama, ask them why.

Actually, you dont have to do that. I've encountered plenty of them here at school, so take my word for it. People don't care. They like Obama because his black. There's no getting around it.

You are making yourself sound quite... well I won't say it.

Ask any person who doesn't know about politics who they are voting for and why, and it will come down to image or because their parents told them, or some other stupid issue.

That doesn't prove your point. Actually it just proves you have no point.

 

[Irvine511]

Actually, you dont have to do that. I've encountered plenty of them here at school, so take my word for it. People don't care. They like Obama because his black. There's no getting around it.

is this any better or worse than those who voted for W on the basis of his being a "Christian" like them?

 

[2861U2]

is this any better or worse than those who voted for W on the basis of his being a "Christian" like them?

In that case, I have a problem with those folks as well. You shouldn't vote for someone just because he is a Christian. You need to look at their policies.

That being said, at least by voting for someone because of their religion, you get a sense of their values and beliefs that go along with the religion. I mean, if I voted for someone based on their Christianity, I would have a good sense of what their values are regarding things like gay marriage, abortion, etc. But of course there are exceptions. Voting for someone because he is black offers no such insight into their beliefs.

 

[anitram]

They like Obama because his black. There's no getting around it.

First of all, that's debatable.

But even if we were to take you at face value, so??? Are we going to start legislating people's reasons for voting? Some Christians will only vote for a Christian. There's no getting around it. Some people won't vote for Hillary because she is a woman. Are you going to be whining about these contingents any time soon or are you more of a selective outrage kinda guy?

 

[anitram]

That being said, at least by voting for someone because of their religion, you get a sense of their values and beliefs that go along with the religion. I mean, if I voted for someone based on their Christianity, I would have a good sense of what their values are regarding things like gay marriage, abortion, etc. But of course there are exceptions. Voting for someone because he is black offers no such insight into their beliefs.

Really? You really think that if you were a black male in the inner city, that you might not want to vote for someone who is black because his colour offers insights into his views on issues that are important to minorities? Like affordable housing, affirmative action, and so on?

 

[BVS]

In that case, I have a problem with those folks as well. You shouldn't vote for someone just because he is a Christian. You need to look at their policies.

That being said, at least by voting for someone because of their religion, you get a sense of their values and beliefs that go along with the religion. I mean, if I voted for someone based on their Christianity, I would have a good sense of what their values are regarding things like gay marriage, abortion, etc. But of course there are exceptions. Voting for someone because he is black offers no such insight into their beliefs.

What a joke. Someone saying they are a "christian" means nothing to me. I find most of the "christian" right to be godless and most unchrist like.

But given your failed logic, someone could easily say, you know what I've never had a president who knew what it felt like to be black in America, it would be nice to have one.

That being said, it still doesn't mean "far too many Americans like him only because he is new, young and black" is a true statement.

 

[2861U2]

But given your failed logic, someone could easily say, you know what I've never had a president who knew what it felt like to be black in America, it would be nice to have one.

And do you agree that that is a bad thing? You are the one always telling everyone to look at policies and not image. You can't say that "I want a black president just because we've never had one" is a good thing.

That being said, it still doesn't mean "far too many Americans like him only because he is new, young and black" is a true statement.

By "far too many Americans" I mean that if even one person thinks like that, it's a bad thing. BonoVox, if I had a dollar for everytime I have read a post by you telling us to look at policies and not image, I'd be a rich man. Please don't tell me that voting for someone based on anything BUT policies is a good thing. Be consistent...

 

[BVS]

And do you agree that that is a bad thing? You are the one always telling everyone to look at policies and not image. You can't say that "I want a black president just because we've never had one" is a good thing.



By "far too many Americans" I mean that if even one person thinks like that, it's a bad thing. BonoVox, if I had a dollar for everytime I have read a post by you telling us to look at policies and not image, I'd be a rich man. Please don't tell me that voting for someone based on anything BUT policies is a good thing. Be consistent...

Wow, you sure miss a lot of points. And this one went flying over your head.

Of course it's not a good thing.

But you started this whole thing by showing joy that he won't run again, and then said the only reason anyone would vote for him is image. But every point you made could be said about any other canidate. So it just comes off as hatred for Obama.

 

[Irvine511]

That being said, at least by voting for someone because of their religion, you get a sense of their values and beliefs that go along with the religion. I mean, if I voted for someone based on their Christianity, I would have a good sense of what their values are regarding things like gay marriage, abortion, etc. But of course there are exceptions. Voting for someone because he is black offers no such insight into their beliefs.

what if i were to vote on someone based upon their life experiences -- and being a black man, or a gay man is as shaping to one's values as being from any religion.

one's experience as a minority is as profoundly shaping as any religion.

 

[phillyfan26]

That being said, at least by voting for someone because of their religion, you get a sense of their values and beliefs that go along with the religion. I mean, if I voted for someone based on their Christianity, I would have a good sense of what their values are regarding things like gay marriage, abortion, etc. But of course there are exceptions. Voting for someone because he is black offers no such insight into their beliefs.

Neither does religion.

I'm Christian and I am pro-gay marriage (because not to be is hate) and pro-abortion (personally anti-, but it's going to happen either way, and we need a safe method). Probably not what you thought.

From your post in the Christianity thread, though, your view on religion is waaaaay out of whack anyway.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I love that both progressive and conservative believers are happy to state that their own biases are more in line with God than their opposites.

 

[phillyfan26]

I love that both progressive and conservative believers are happy to state that their own biases are more in line with God than their opposites.

God wanted gays to live in an oppressive society, duh. Look it up.

 

[deep]

Tales From the Obama’s Bedroom

By Katharine Q. Seelye

When is some information too much information?



In an interview with Glamour magazine, Michelle Obama reveals that her husband, Barack, is “snore-y and stinky” when he wakes up in the morning.

perhaps she'll do better in her next marriage.

 

[martha]

I know that far, far too many Americans like him only because he is new, young and black.

Don't forget good-looking. Because that's the girl vote right there.

 

[martha]

That being said, at least by voting for someone because of their religion, you get a sense of their values and beliefs that go along with the religion.

True. I can get the sense that many Republican Christians value serial marriage and adultery, because they practice it so readily.

 

[Infinity]

I do believe there are people out there who are supporting Obama just because he is black. Just like I also believe there are people out there who are supporting Hillary because she is a woman. At the same time, i'm sure there are people out there who are against Obama because he is black or are against Hillary because she is a woman.

I don't think all the Obama hype is soley because he is black. If that were true, then Al Sharpton would have been as popular in 2004 as Obama is now.

That being said, it seems like Barack Obama and also Mitt Romney would not be as popular or well known if it weren't for their looks, height and young age, IMHO. Out of all the candidates who are running or who have ran in this election, all the popular/well-known ones were well known even before the race begin, with the exception of Barack Obama and Mitt Romney. Here is a list of all the well known candidates from both parties and the reason why they are that well known even before the race started:

Hillary Clinton: Former first lady of very popular President Bill Clinton.

John Edwards: Vice Presidental Candidate in the 2004 Election.

Rudy Giuliani: Arguably the most famous mayor in the history of the United States.

John McCain: One of the most famous Senators in the United States. Ran for President in 2000.

Fred Thompson: Popular American actor.

Mitt Romney: Not well known at all before he ran.

Barack Obama: Not well known at all before he ran.


I seriously believe that looks are a major reason why Barack Obama and Mitt Romney are popular in the race. If either one of them looked like Dennis Kucinich or Mike Gravel, do any of you honestly think they would be as popular as they are in the race today?

 

[phillyfan26]

Actually, I had heard of Obama before, and I don't follow politics all that readily. There was huge hype when he was first elected. Romney, I'll admit, I'd never heard of, but Obama had been making headlines. I don't really remember why, but I knew about him as much as I knew about most politicians.

 

[anitram]

That being said, it seems like Barack Obama and also Mitt Romney would not be as popular or well known if it weren't for their looks, height and young age, IMHO.

Mitt Romney looks like a used car salesman to me. And then he opens his mouth and sounds like one too.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Mitt Romney looks like a used car salesman to me. And then he opens his mouth and sounds like one too.

Hey, don't insult used car salesmen

Michelle Obama is awesome, she really keeps that man's feet on the ground doesn't she? I love it.

 

[diamond]

I


I seriously believe that looks are a major reason why Barack Obama and Mitt Romney are popular in the race. If either one of them looked like Dennis Kucinich or Mike Gravel, do any of you honestly think they would be as popular as they are in the race today?

Excellent point.

And to the cheap shot offered by the Non US citizen regarding Mitt looking like a used car salesman, alot of Americans viewed Bill Clinton this way, and if I remember right he was elected twice despite being hobbled by an unpopular wife.

That said, I do not see Mitt winning the general election.
Fast Freddy may be the man.

dbs