Of Trade and Terror

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Sherry Darling

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Terrific op-ed! Thought I'd share. What do you all think?



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Connect the Dots
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

he U.S. war on terrorism suffered a huge blow last week ? not in Baghdad or Kabul, but on the beaches of Canc?n.

Canc?n was the site of the latest world trade talks, which fell apart largely because the U.S., the E.U. and Japan refused to give up the lavish subsidies they bestow on their farmers, making the prices of their cotton and agriculture so cheap that developing countries can't compete. This is a disaster because exporting food and textiles is the only way for most developing countries to grow. The Economist quoted a World Bank study that said a Canc?n agreement, reducing tariffs and agrisubsidies, could have raised global income by $500 billion a year by 2015 ? over 60 percent of which would go to poor countries and pull 144 million people out of poverty.

Sure, poverty doesn't cause terrorism ? no one is killing for a raise. But poverty is great for the terrorism business because poverty creates humiliation and stifled aspirations and forces many people to leave their traditional farms to join the alienated urban poor in the cities ? all conditions that spawn terrorists.

I would bet any amount of money, though, that when it came to deciding the Bush team's position at Canc?n, no thought was given to its impact on the war on terrorism. Wouldn't it have been wise for the U.S. to take the initiative at Canc?n, and offer to reduce our farm subsidies and textile tariffs, so some of the poorest countries, like Pakistan and Egypt, could raise their standards of living and sense of dignity, and also become better customers for U.S. goods? Yes, but that would be bad politics. It would mean asking U.S. farmers to sacrifice the ridiculous subsidies they get from our federal government ($3 billion a year for 25,000 cotton farmers) that make it impossible for foreign farmers to sell here.

And one thing we know about this Bush war on terrorism: sacrifice is only for Army reservists and full-time soldiers. For the rest of us, it's guns and butter. When it comes to the police and military sides of the war on terrorism, the Bushies behave like Viking warriors. But when it comes to the political and economic sacrifices and strategies that are also required to fight this war successfully, they are cowardly wimps. That is why our war on terrorism is so one-dimensional and Pentagon-centric. It's more like a hobby ? something we do only until it runs into the Bush re-election agenda.

"If the sons of American janitors can go die in Iraq to keep us safe," says Robert Wright, author of "Nonzero," a book on global interdependence, "then American cotton farmers, whose average net worth is nearly $1 million, can give up their subsidies to keep us safe. Opening our markets to farm products and textiles would be critical to drawing many nations ? including Muslim ones ? more deeply into the interdependent web of global capitalism and ultimately democracy."

The U.S. and Europe, argues Clyde Prestowitz, the trade expert and author of "Rogue Nation," should actually shrink their farm subsidies unilaterally, even if developing countries don't immediately reciprocate.

"Such a move is essential," wrote Mr. Prestowitz on the YaleGlobal Web site, "not only as a matter of providing a badly needed boost to developing countries, but also because the failure [of Canc?n] poses a serious threat to the main hope of generating the economic growth necessary to lift developing countries out of poverty."

If only the Bush team connected the dots, it would see what a nutty war on terrorism it is fighting, explains Mr. Prestowitz. Here, he says, is the Bush war on terrorism: Preach free trade, but don't deliver on it, so Pakistani farmers become more impoverished. Then ask Congress to give a tax break for any American who wants to buy a gas-guzzling Humvee for business use and also ask Congress to resist any efforts to make Detroit increase gasoline mileage in new cars. All this means more U.S. oil imports from Saudi Arabia.

So then the Saudis have more dollars to give to their Wahhabi fundamentalist evangelists, who spend it by building religious schools in Pakistan. The Pakistani farmer we've put out of business with our farm subsidies then sends his sons to the Wahhabi school because it is tuition-free and offers a hot lunch. His sons grow up getting only a Koranic education, so they are totally unprepared for modernity, but they are taught one thing: that America is the source of all their troubles. One of the farmer's sons joins Al Qaeda and is killed in Afghanistan by U.S. Special Forces, and we think we're winning the war on terrorism.

Fat chance.



Cheers, SD
 
Not so terrific

Interesting. The author identifies the real cause of terrorism:

So then the Saudis have more dollars to give to their Wahhabi fundamentalist evangelists, who spend it by building religious schools in Pakistan. The Pakistani farmer we've put out of business with our farm subsidies then sends his sons to the Wahhabi school because it is tuition-free and offers a hot lunch. His sons grow up getting only a Koranic education, so they are totally unprepared for modernity, but they are taught one thing: that America is the source of all their troubles

But then dances around the root issue and points fingers at Bush's economic policies.

Where is the higher correlation for terrorism?
 
You're right, nbcrusader they shouldn't be letting the Wahhabis off the hook. They do fund those schools in Pakistan. Recently there has been a ton of controversy in the Islamic world about the Wahhabis, who are not particularly well thought of in the Islamic world outside of Saudi Arabia, and their role in terrorism. Many Moslems in other countries have trouble with some of the things they say about "jihad". Properly speaking, "jihad" means "struggle", and it's mostly about a struggle against sin, not against non-Moslems. There's an economic component to terrorism and that's what the article is getting at. Saudi liberals who want more rights for women and such in the kingdom are mad as hell at the Wahhabist officials as well. They've taken some inflammatory statements out of their religion textbooks. I'm not as educated about the economics as Sherry is. I do know this Saudi system is a problem for people in Saudi Arabia itself and elsewhere. I read the Princess Trilogy by Jean Sasson, about lives of women in Saudi Arabia and felt like I'd been electrocuted or something, I was so shocked and horrified. I am so glad I'm not a woman in that country.
That being said there's an economic component to terrorism. The subsidies aren't helping by driving Third World farmers off of their land into slums. Al Qaeda has done all of their recruiting in desperately poor countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan. These countries need help. You can't win the war on terrorism with just military stuff. I think that's what the article is getting at--do something about the economics.
 
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Thanks Verte. But I have a lot to learn still!

You're absolutely right, though, in seeing the connetion the author makes.

NBC, you raise a fair question. And certainly the causes of terror are complex and varied. But I think that it's ironic that you say he dances around the connection between trade and terror (not that it's the only factor, no one claims that) but then quote the very passage where he makes that connection so clearly: US and EU trade policies, specifically agrisubsidies, help to perpetuate poverty. Poverty makes it easier for terrorists to do their work by forcing people into desperate, vulnerable positons that seem to prove to the impoverished all that al Queda says about the West. Like the author says, connect the dots.

Cheers,
SD
 
That is an awful lot of dots to connect, and a number of long stretches to get to the conclusion.

Terrorists are not misguided youth who, without jobs, join gangs for empowerment purposes.

The hatred taught by the "Wahhabi fundamentalist evangelists" is not an economic hatred. It teaches that certain lands are for muslims only and the infidels must be removed or killed. It teaches the glory of dying for this cause.
 
No it's not saying that Wahhabi is economic hatred or that terrorists are misguided youth.

The Marshall Plan in Europe was put in place to stop communism spreading through Europe right? They learned that from not doing something similar at the end of WWI. They just let Germany fall back into economic chaos, and from there someone like Hitler with extreme views promising immediate results was able to gain control.

Basically, if people are poor, uneducated etc and there is a leadership void, it's very easy for anyone to step into that void and say 'I have the solution' even if it's extreme like the Nazi's or Soviet style communism or religious extremism. In fact the tougher and more extreme it is, it seems usually the more popular it is.

So the education is a good example. Very very poor people, filthy rich government not pulling their weight in areas like education, and who steps in with the free education?

And it's happening at all levels. Millions of people screaming 'I have problems!' and the only people who appear to be listening, or offering solutions are the extreme end. There's not a direct economic link to terrorism, but there is a direct economic link to fundamental/extreme views being so popular in these countries.
 
TylerDurden:

Not exactly, after WW1 they tried to punish Germany and Germany had to pay tons of money as "repair-costs" to the winners.
Because of that the Economic colapsed and radicals who promissed that they would stop this got the power.

After WW2 they learned from that PLUS they were affraid that West Germany could become communistic too.

Klaus
 
nbcrusader said:
That is an awful lot of dots to connect, and a number of long stretches to get to the conclusion.

Terrorists are not misguided youth who, without jobs, join gangs for empowerment purposes.

The hatred taught by the "Wahhabi fundamentalist evangelists" is not an economic hatred. It teaches that certain lands are for muslims only and the infidels must be removed or killed. It teaches the glory of dying for this cause.

You're only partly right, here NBC. Yes, they teach the land is for Muslims only. They also clearly teach that the US (as you can see if you look at some of UBL's statements) is to blame for their poverty and powerlessness, and that "the Great Satan's" capitalist greed makes necesary targets. I'd suggest you find a website that has translations of what he's said, and you'll see my paraphrase is accurate. (I'm off to the library to do some studying and don't have time right now.) You don't even have to connect a lot of dots; I'm not doing a bunch of mental, rhetorical gymnasitics here to get to my point. I'm just adding 2 and and 2 and getting 4.

Cheers,
SD
 
Sherry Darling said:
I'm just adding 2 and and 2 and getting 4.

I don't know if many Radiohead fans agree with you here. :D

Anyway, to stay on topic, I think the US and the EU did drop the ball in Cancun by desperately holding on to their expensive subsidies. As the article suggests, when you have strong economic ties with another party, you think twice of attacking that party for the economic consequences will be enormous.

C ya!

Marty (longing for his weekend)
 
Sherry Darling said:
I'm just adding 2 and and 2 and getting 4.

Cheers,
SD

I think you are only getting to 3 1/2.

The Great Satan is not a reference to capitalism, or the US's economic prowess. It is a reference to freedoms that allow or encourage people to live outside the strict boundaries of Islam. It is the fear of free speech, the fear of freedom of religion, the fear of an open entertainment industry, the fear of Barbie. You can see where this is heading.

An economic incentive to abandon the teachings of the "Wahhabi fundamentalist evangelists" is a nice theory, but has not guaranty of working.
 
Some Moslems in Saudi Arabia, including the princess who's the main character in the "Princess Trilogy" are not really Wahhabis. She is a Moslem but has a much more inclusive, compassionate worldview and thinks much of the hate in Wahhabism is secular Arab custom and not Islam, properly speaking. She is a very bright woman who managed to get a masters' degree in philosophy. There's certainly no harm in supporting people like her. It's a mistake to get the words "Wahhabism" and "Islam" mixed up. They're not the same thing at all.
 
When it comes to economics and trade, the United States on the whole is the most open market on the planet. The USA currently imports around 1.5 Trillion dollars worth of goods and services from the rest of the planet every year. We export a little under a Trillion.

While its important to open up trade more, the world is not a secure enough place where the USA could simply do away with farming all together and get all its food from the third world. In a perfect world without potential threats, that would actually be best. Each country produces and sells what they are most efficient in from both a cost and profit point of view. The law of comparitive advantage I believe it is. But, at this point and time, it would be unwise for the USA or any country for that matter, allow free trade to destroy their farm industry. To the degree that tarrifs and subsidies can be reduced without significantly damaging US domestic farm output, the US should do so. But it would be dangerous in times of crises to be completely reliant on the third world, for the nations food.

Tarrifs and subsidies in regards to farming should be reduced but to the point that it forces US farmers out of the industry and the US becomes dangerously reliant on foreign producers for its food.
 
STING2 said:
When it comes to economics and trade, the United States on the whole is the most open market on the planet. The USA currently imports around 1.5 Trillion dollars worth of goods and services from the rest of the planet every year. We export a little under a Trillion.

I haven't heard anyone suggest we rely on the 3rd world for our food. That's a red herring, Sting. What I am suggesting, nay demanding, is that we stop forcing them to rely on us.

Your post also left out quite a salient fact: yes, we import quite a lot. Unfortuneately, and the confirms the recent complaints of nations who walked out of the WTO talks, nearly 100% of that is from the EU and a handful of East Asia nations (Koren, Japan, China, and Tawian mostly). The poorest nations in the world, most in Africa, get none of our market. I can dig up the exact stats for you all if you'd like...but it's friday nite now and I'm going to get a beer. :D



SD :wave:
 
Isn?t it enough to fight poverty because it?s poverty. Connection to terrorism or not, the mind pattern is interesting:

It connects poverty with terrorism.

On the other hand, we are all aware that most of the billions of poor people on this planet do not have anything to do with terrorism. We also know that without money, terrorism can?t be financed.

The point is that we should fight against poverty to reduce pain and misery.

In fighting poverty and allowing developing countries their own economies instead of stomping them into the ground in the name of globalization, we can help to reduce misery, and hate. Hate does not necessarily lead to terrorism.
 
STING2 said:
When it comes to economics and trade, the United States on the whole is the most open market on the planet. The USA currently imports around 1.5 Trillion dollars worth of goods and services from the rest of the planet every year. We export a little under a Trillion.

While its important to open up trade more, the world is not a secure enough place where the USA could simply do away with farming all together and get all its food from the third world. In a perfect world without potential threats, that would actually be best. Each country produces and sells what they are most efficient in from both a cost and profit point of view. The law of comparitive advantage I believe it is.

I would be interested in statistics. I am sure that Africa is far behind the Far East, when it comes to what the United States import from where. Also, statistics about what goods are imported, would be helpful to get to some specified answers, instead of comparing 1 to 1.5 Trillon.

The theory of comparitive advantage does not work out for developing countries.

The model of comparative costs, Adam Smith, says that if countries specialize in certain goods, it will do their economy good. If Country A produces watches, like f.e. Switzerland, it is good to specialize in producing watches, and not in growing crop. Country B, a developing country, specializes in growing crop. It?s positive for all the world because more goods are produced as a whole.

It?s not only important how many goods you produce, but also for what prices you sell them. If A can produce a pound of crop for 1$, he will not buy crop for more than 1$ per pound on the international market. B produces this amount of crop for/ could sell it on the domestic market for 0.75$. B wouldn?t sell its crop on the international market for less than 0.75$ per pound. So the international price will be between 0.75$ and 1$. It?s a win-win situation: exporting country earns more than it would, importing country pays less than it would.

This beautiful theory is taught in about every university of the U.S. or Europe. It?s a clean, nice model. Other models aren?t taught, except in one or two books.

The economic model above was somehow disturbed by Graham, i.e. the Graham-Paradoxon, which nowadays is a taboo for economists. Graham only introduced one new factor: productivity. How much can you produce, what are the costs per period of productivity/ product? Per work unit? Let?s imagine that 4 products (f.e. four watches, or pounds of crop) are created in one working period. At the start, 0.25 work units per product are needed.

If a country specializes, it needs to look for new ways to produce more of the good it specializes in. The production costs per 1 watch/ crop are dependent of the amount you produce. And there is a difference of productivity comparing agricultural and industrial products.

In reality, when you produce watches, you have all the advantages of mass production. It?s an industrial product, so you just need to open a new factory. This does not take a lot of time and space. The costs are sinking, and productivity is on the rise. Everyone is happy in Switzerland.

In Country B, the developing country, things look different: B produces mainly agricultural products. So, to produce more crop, you?ll have to look for new farmland. But the best parts of farmland for growing crop are already full of it - which means B has to, and will, use the farmland that?s not so perfect. This farmland has to be made ready for growing crop, so B needs to employ more workers. Also, B needs more artificial fertilizer, etc. Effectively, that means more costs per product - per pound of crop.

There are several examples... the mining industry being one of them. B, depending on mining, wants to produce more iron ore? B has to dig deeper. More costs per product. European oil production in the North Sea is more expensive than elsewhere, because they have to dig down hundreds of metres!

Result: economy of Country A, based on industrial products, is getting more and more cost-effective. It can produce 5 watches per work unit, so the costs are 0.2 work units per product. Country B gets less and less productive. B has the chance to decide if he wants to invest more for the result of less profit per product, or if he does not want to invest more (most of the time, the money in developing countries may be needed for importing f.e. industrial goods). So B does not always invest, and the result is a giant production loss. That?s bad for world trade, too.

Since B is less productive than before, the price of a pound of crop goes down from 0.75$ to 0.5$ on the domestic market. A is more powerful, so he forcing the price on the international market to be 0.6$. Now, 0.6$ is a little bit more than 0.5$, so the crop-producer sells out on the international market.

This is a practical example for unfair terms of trade.

TermsofTrade101: The thesis of Raoul Prebisch and Hans-Wolfgang Singer says that between 1870 and 1940 the terms of trade have consistently fallen to the disadvantage of developing countries.
 
There are some problems with the model of Country A vs. B.

#1 Country B has the option to invest in technology that would increase production of food and reduce cost per unit produced. The advantages that technology provides are not limited to the production of watches. Its true enviromental factors do put constraints on Country B. that Country A would not have.

#2 Demand! Production of watches is limited by Demand. Production of food though is more vital in a way that watches are not.

#3 Country B does not have to turn deserts into gardens, it can use the land that it has to produce the products to meet the demand in Country A. Rather than produce food in non-cost effective ways, it can invest in technology to reduce the cost of what it currently produces and find other ways to increase the yield from the land that can be farmed. The environment may put constraints on the total amount that can be produced at some point, but Country B does not have to engage in inefficient production methods. It is not logical for Country B to try and produce food in area's where it would not have its comparitive advantage to Country A in producing the same product. Such money is better spent on technology that would further reduce the cost of the production of the food there by increasing its comparitive advantage in this area.
 
Net worth of US cotton farmers nearly $1,000,000? Gee sure wish they'd tell the ones around here. I live in cotton field country and most of these people are barely making a living. I'm sure net worth includes the value of their land and their farm equiptment, all of which are worthless if the crop doesn't bring a good price. No one around here is a millionaire. The ones I know are living hand in mouth and drive beat up junkers. They can't even think of paying for college for their kids.

Farmers in the US have a hard time. That's what Farm Aid was about. The gov't does give some ridiculous subsidies, like the ones to sheep farmers because wool used to be used for Army uniforms even though it no longer uses wool! But the collapse of many family farms in the 80's was a disaster. Some of the things the gov't does are crazy, but some are needed to keep our own industry alive and healthy and some farmers would go bust without them. I'm sorry for struggling farmers everywhere, but why should ours struggle more so some others can struggle less?
 
STING2 said:
There are some problems with the model of Country A vs. B.

#1 Country B has the option to invest in technology that would increase production of food and reduce cost per unit produced. The advantages that technology provides are not limited to the production of watches. Its true enviromental factors do put constraints on Country B. that Country A would not have.

#2 Demand! Production of watches is limited by Demand. Production of food though is more vital in a way that watches are not.

#3 Country B does not have to turn deserts into gardens, it can use the land that it has to produce the products to meet the demand in Country A. Rather than produce food in non-cost effective ways, it can invest in technology to reduce the cost of what it currently produces and find other ways to increase the yield from the land that can be farmed. The environment may put constraints on the total amount that can be produced at some point, but Country B does not have to engage in inefficient production methods. It is not logical for Country B to try and produce food in area's where it would not have its comparitive advantage to Country A in producing the same product. Such money is better spent on technology that would further reduce the cost of the production of the food there by increasing its comparitive advantage in this area.


Point 1--not if they don't have any investment capital, no they don't!

Point 3--see point 1; also remember that MNCs are rendering at least some of that land unuseable. Many of these developing nations are caught in the "you have to make money to make money" paradox and can't get their footing because of it.

The real question, however, is what the hail right does the WTO have to right trade laws for nations that have not had a say in those laws. Me countrymen fought a war over that, if I remember right.


Hiphop--word! You fight poverty cause it's the right thing to do. I do like the connection to terror arguement, though, because its factual and practical and could possibly bring along others who don't necessary our opinion.

:wave:

sd
 
STING2 - you make some valid points that Smith did not think of. It is true that there are some options and possibilities, anyhow, they are limited for developing countries, like Sherry pointed out. Anyway, like we have found out in earlier discussions (see some threads a year ago) industrial development does not necessarily lead to less poverty, and does not automatically make economy grow, or a country more able to "stand on its own feet". We could enter a long discussion about the pro?s and cons of several economic measures here, but we won?t (because I?m not paid for it ;)).

Anyhow, the example Country A vs. B was designed as a part of the theory of comparative advantage (the first two paragraphs, Adam Smith). I wanted to make clear that this theory is just a plain theory. Therefore its not total rubbish, but doesn?t have a lot to do with the real world, as we can see.

Sherry Darling-word! :up: I don?t like the connection to the terror argument though, because "others who do not necessarily share opinion" may turn the inefficiency of the argument into a counter-argument. I think people have to convinced with the right arguments. I also think manipulation for the right cause is fine. But I would prefer it to be a little more accurate :eyebrow:

Any kind of "fight against terrorism" is totally useless as long as it does not concentrate on the financial transactions involved. As everyone knows (everyone who?s not totally legally drugged), the "fight against terrorism" is just a keyword in order to justify economic and military action, to cut personal rights domestically, to gain control internationally. As we can see, all of that works out pretty well (except for the soldiers in Iraq).

"Opening our markets to farm products and textiles would be critical to drawing many nations ? including Muslim ones ? more deeply into the interdependent web of global capitalism and ultimately democracy."

I can not see any connection between global capitalism and democracy. Capitalism is defined economically, democracy is defined politically. Robert Wright implies that global capitalism leads to democracy. I do not believe in this theory... another one of those nice theories that plays a part in keeping the third world in poverty for the next 40 years... maybe then it?s proved wrong, but hey, let?s get to the next fucking theory.

"The Economist quoted a World Bank study that said a Canc?n agreement, reducing tariffs and agrisubsidies, could have raised global income by $500 billion a year by 2015 ? over 60 percent of which would go to poor countries and pull 144 million people out of poverty."

Agreed, I guess, without having checked the stats.

"The U.S. and Europe, argues Clyde Prestowitz, the trade expert and author of "Rogue Nation," should actually shrink their farm subsidies unilaterally, even if developing countries don't immediately reciprocate. Such a move is essential," wrote Mr. Prestowitz on the YaleGlobal Web site, "not only as a matter of providing a badly needed boost to developing countries, but also because the failure [of Canc?n] poses a serious threat to the main hope of generating the economic growth necessary to lift developing countries out of poverty."

Yep, I think Mr. Prestowitz knows what he?s talking about.
 
Sherry Darling,

"Point 1--not if they don't have any investment capital, no they don't!"

Ah, but were talking about a hypothetical senerio where Country B is producing all of Country A's food. In such a senerio, country B would have money to invest.

Protectionism does not work, free trade does. Many liberals presented scary models about what would happen to a more integrated Europe. People in Northern Europe feared all their jobs would go south to Portugal and Italy. People in Southern Europe feared they would not be able to compete and would lose out in the process. The reality is that the majority of people have benefited from greater intergration and free trade in Europe. Eastern European countries are pushing to get into the EU.

160 years ago, Ireland was one of the poorest countries on the planet. The famine killed and forced the immigration of nearly half of the population. Today Ireland is the 3rd richest country on the planet based on per capita GDP. Only the USA and Luxembourg are higher. Here is the top 10:

1. Luxembourg 53,780
2. United States 34,320

3. Ireland 32,410

4. Iceland 29,990
5. Norway 29,620
6. Denmark 29,000
7. Switzerland 28,100
8. Netherlands 27,190
9. Canada 27,130
10. Austria 26,730

Free Trade can develop countries that are the most impoverished.
 
STING2 said:
Ah, but were talking about a hypothetical senerio where Country B is producing all of Country A's food. In such a senerio, country B would have money to invest.


Yes, but does such a senario reflect any of the real situations in which developing nations find themselves? :D

Protectionism does not work, free trade does.

Yes, that's right. And it's exactly why we should stop protecting our markets so much.

One other important cavaet that free traders usually aren't aware of, or ignore: for developed nations, free trade works. For developing nations, some measure of protection is necesary, as any study of how Western Europe and the US developed will show. See Ha Joon Chang's (Cambridge dev. econ prof) "Kicking Away the Ladder: Development Strategy in Historical Perspective" for charts, documents, details.

Cheryl
 
Largest 25 Economies in the world based on total GDP
2001


1. United States 9,792.5 1
2. China 5,111.2
3. Japan 3,193.0
4. India 2,930.0
5. Germany 2,086.8

6. Italy 1,429.7
7. United Kingdom 1,420.3
8. France 1,420.0
9. Brazil 1,268.6
10. Russian Federation 1,027.9

11. Canada 843.2
12. Mexico 838.2 2
13. Spain 828.4
14. Korea, Rep. of 714.2
15. Indonesia 615.2

16. Australia 491.8
17. South Africa 488.2 2
18. Netherlands 436.2
19. Argentina 424.4
20. Thailand 391.7

21. Turkey 390.3
22. Iran, Islamic Rep. of 387.2
23. Poland 365.3
24. Colombia 302.8
25. Philippines 301.1
 
I'll explain, FW. Sting's kindly making my case for me. :D Not a single African, and scarcely an LA country on the list. Not even many "transistion" economies, except for Poland and Turkey. Man, the debt has GOT TO GO and the wealthy nations have GOT to bite the bullet and open their markets to people OTHER than fellow rich, powerful nations.

:mad: :rant:

Cheryl
 
Its just food for thought in this economics debate. If it bothers you that much, have the mods remove it.
 
Remember, this is just total wealth and not a reflection of Standard of Living in each country. Also many African and LA countries have smaller populations which has a big impact on total GDP. While India might have the worlds 4th largest economy, it ranks 127 in the world in standard of living. The Occupied Palestinian Territories by comparison rank at #98 in the world when it comes to Standard of Living.

Here is a list of how the worlds 25 largest economies rank when it come to standard of living. Standard of living ranking to the right.

1. United States 7th in the world
2. China 104th in the world
3. Japan 9th in the world
4. India 127th in the world
5. Germany 18th in the world
6. Italy 21st in the world
7. United Kingdom 13 in the world
8. France 17th in the world
9. Brazil 65th in the world
10. Russia 63 in the world

11. Canada 8th in the world
12. Mexico 55th in the world
13. Spain 19th in the world
14. Korea Rep. of 30th in the world
15. Indonesia 112th in the world
16. Australia 4th in the world
17. South Africa 111th in the world
18. Netherlands 5th in the world
19. Argentina 34th in the world
20. Thailand 74th in the world

21. Turkey 96th in the world
22. Iran 106th in the world
23. Poland 35th in the world
24. Columbia 64th in the world
25. Philippines 85th in the world
 
Aw, Sting. No one's mad. I think (though she can of course speak for herself) she was just asking what the specific connection was. If there wasn't one, and it was just FYI, it was interesting info, so thank you! :wave:

I think it's like Sweden or Finland or something which has the highest SOL, btw, if memory serves. Good argument for more socialist democracies.:wink: But that's a whole other thread.

Cheryl
 
The countries with the top 30 standards of living in the world are:

1. Norway
2. Iceland
3. Sweden
4. Australia
5. Netherlands
6. Belgium
7. United States
8. Canada
9. Japan
10. Switzerland
11. Denmark
12. Ireland
13. United Kingdom
14. Findland
15. Luxembourg
16. Austria
17. France
18. Germany
19. Spain
20. New Zealand
21. Italy
22. Israel
23. Portugal
24. Greece
25. Cyprus
26. Hong Kong
27. Barbados
28. Singapore
29. Slovenia
30. South Korea
 
Here are a list of factors that went into forming the Human Development Index or "standard of living" above.


MONITORING HUMAN DEVELOPMENT: ENLARGING PEOPLE?S CHOICES . .
1 Human development index
Life expectancy at birth (years)
Adult literacy rate (% age 15 and above)
Combined primary, secondary and tertiary gross enrolment ratio (%)
GDP per capita (PPP US$)
Life expectancy index
Education index
GDP index
Human development index (HDI) value
GDP per capita (PPP US$) rank minus HDI rank
2 Human development index trend
Human Development Index
3 Human and income poverty: developing countries
Human Poverty Index (HPI-1) rank
Human Poverty Index (HPI-1) value
Probability at birth of not surviving to age 40 (% of cohort)
Adult illiteracy rate (% age 15 and above)
Population without sustainable access to an improved water source
Children under weight for age (% under age 5)
Population living below $1 a day (%)
Population living below $2 a day (%)
Population living below the national poverty line (%)
HPI-1 rank minus income poverty rank
4 Human and income poverty: OECD, Central & Eastern Europe & CIS
Human Poverty Index (HPI-2) rank
Human Poverty Index (HPI-2) value
Probability at birth of not surviving to age 60 (% of cohort)
People lacking functional literacy skills (% age 16-65)
Long-term unemployment (as % of labour force)
Population living below 50% of median income (%)
Population living below $11 a day (1994 PPP US$)
Population living below $4 a day (1990 PPP US$)
HPI-2 rank minus income poverty rank

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. . . TO LEAD A LONG AND HEALTHY LIFE . . .
5 Demographic trends
Total population (millions)
Annual population growth rate (%)
Urban population (as % of total)
Population under age 15 (as % of total)
population over age 65 (as % of total)
Total fertility rate (per woman)
6 Commitment to health: access, services and resources
Population with access to improved sanitation (%)
Population with sustainable access to an improved water source (%)
Population with sustainable access to affordable essential drugs (%)
One-year-olds fully immunized against tuberculosis (%)
One-year-olds fully immunized against measles (%)
Oral rehydration therapy use rate (%)
Contraceptive prevalence rate (%)
Births attended by skilled health personnel (%)
Physicians (per 100,000 people)
Public health expenditure (as % of GDP)
Private health expenditure (as % of GDP)
Health expenditure per capita (PPP US$)
7 Leading global health crises and challenges
Undernourished people (as % of total population)
Children underweight for age (% under age 5)
Children under height for age (% under age 5)
Infants with low birthweight (%)
People living with HIV/AIDS, adults (age 15-49)
People living with HIV/AIDS, women (age 15-49)
People living with HIV/AIDS, children (age 0-14)
Malaria cases (per 100,000 people)
Tuberculosis cases (per 100,000 people)
Cigarette consumption per adult (annual average)
8 Survival: progress and setbacks
Life expectancy at birth (years)
Infant mortality rate (per 1,000 live births)
Under-five mortality rate (per 1,000 live births)
Probability at birth of surviving to age 65, female (% of cohort)
Probability at birth of surviving to age 65, male (% of cohort)
Maternal mortality ratio reported (per 100,000 live births)

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. . . TO ACQUIRE KNOWLEDGE . . .
9 Commitment to education: public spending
Public expenditure on education (as % of GDP)
Public expenditure on education (as % of total government expenditure)
Public expenditure on education, pre-pimary and primary (as % of all levels)
Public expenditure on education, secondary (as % of all levels)
Public expenditure on education, tertiary (as % of all levels)
10 Literacy and enrolment
Adult literacy rate (% age 15 and above)
Youth literacy rate (% age 15-24)
Net primary enrolment ratio (%)
Net secondary enrolment ratio (%)
Children reaching grade 5 (%)
Tertiary students in science, math and engineering (as % of all tertiary students)
11 Technology: diffusion and creation
Telephone mainlines (per 1,000 people)
Cellular subscribers (per 1,000 people)
Internet users (per 1,000 people)
Patents granted to residents (per million people)
Receipts of royalties and license fees (US$ per person)
Research and development (R&D) expenditures (as % of GDP)
Scientists & engineers in R&D (per million people)

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. . . TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE RESOURCES NEEDED FOR A DECENT STANDARD OF LIVING . . .
12 Economic performance
GDP (US$ billions)
GDP (PPP US$ Billion)
GDP per capita (US$)
GDP per capita (PPP US$)
GDP per capita annual growth rate (%)
GDP per capita, highest value (PPP US$)
GDP per capita, year of highest value
Average annual change in consumer price index (%)
13 Inequality in income or consumption
Survey Year
Share of income or consumption (%) - Poorest 10%
Share of income or consumption (%) - Poorest 20%
Share of income or consumption (%) - Richest 20%
Share of income or consumption (%) - Richest 10%
Inequality measures - Ratio of richest 10% to poorest 10%
Inequality measures - Ratio of richest 20% to poorest 20%
Inequality measures - Gini index
14 The structure of trade
Imports of goods and services (as % of GDP)
Exports of goods and services (as % of GDP)
Primary exports (as % of merchandise exports)
Manufactured exports (as % of merchandise exports)
High-technology exports (as % of merchandise exports)
Terms of trade (1980=100)
15 Flows of aid from DAC member countries
16 Flows of aid, private capital and debt
ODA received (net disbursements) Total (US$ millions)
ODA received (net disbursements) per capita (US$)
ODA received (net disbursements) (as % of GDP)
Net foreign direct investment inflows (as % of GDP)
Other private flows (as % of GDP)
Total debt service (as % of GDP)
Total debt service (as % of exports of goods and services)
17 Priorities in public spending
Public expenditure on education (as % of GDP)
Public expenditure on health (as % of GDP)
Military expenditure (as % of GDP)
Total debt service (as % of GDP)
18 Unemployment in OECD countries
Unemployed people (thousands)
Unemployment rate (% of labour force)
Average annual unemployment rate (% of labour force)
Female unemployment rate as % of male rate
Youth unemployment rate (% of labour force aged 15-24)
Female youth unemployment rate as % of male rate
Long-term unemployment (as % of total unemployment): Female
Long-term unemployment (as % of total unemployment): Male

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. . . WHILE PRESERVING IT FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS . . .
19 Energy and the environment
Traditional fuel consumption (as % of total energy use)
Electricity consumption per capita (kilowatt-hours)
GDP per unit of energy use (PPP US$ per kg of oil equivalent)
Carbon dioxide emissions - Per capita (metric tons)
Carbon dioxide emissions - Share of world total (%)
Ratification of environmental treaties - Cartagena Protocol on Biosafety
Ratification of environmental treaties - Framework Convention on Climate Change
Ratification of environmental treaties - Kyoto Protocol to the Framework Convention on Climate Change
Ratification of environmental treaties - Convention on Biological Diversity

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. . . PROTECTING PERSONAL SECURITY . . .
20 Refugees and armaments
Internally displaced persons (thousands)
Refugees by country of asylum (thousands)
Refugees by country of origin (thousands)
Conventional arms transfers (1990 prices) - Imports (US$ millions)
Conventional arms (1990 prices) - Exports (US$ million)
Conventional arms transfers (1990 prices) - Exports share (%)
Total armed forces Thousands
Total armed forces Index (1985=100)
21 Victims of crime

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. . . AND ACHIEVING EQUALITY FOR ALL WOMEN AND MEN
22 Gender-related development index
Gender-related development index (GDI) rank
Gender-related development index (GDI) value
Female life expectancy at birth (years)
Male life expectancy at birth (years)
Female adult literacy rate (% age 15 and above)
Male adult literacy rate (% age 15 and above)
Female combined primary, secondary and tertiary gross enrolment ratio (%)
Male combined primary, secondary and tertiary gross enrolment ratio (%)
Female estimated earned income (PPP US$)
Male estimated earned income (PPP US$)
HDI rank minus GDI rank
23 Gender empowerment measure
Gender empowerment measure (GEM) rank
Gender empowerment measure (GEM) value
Seats in parliament held by women (as % of total)
Female legislators, senior officials and managers (as % of total)
Female professional and technical workers (as % of total)
Ratio of estimated female to male earned income
24 Gender inequality in education
Female adult literacy rate (% age 15 and above)
Adult literacy rate (female as % of male)
Female youth literacy rate (% age 15-24)
Youth literacy rate (female as % of male)
Female primary net enrolment ratio
Primary net enrolment ratio (female as % of male)
Female secondary net enrolment ratio
Secondary net enrolment ratio (female as % of male)
Female tertiary gross enrolment ratio
Tertiary gross enrolment ratio (female as % of male)
25 Gender inequality in economic activity
Female economic activity rate (% age 15 and above)
Female economic activity rate (index, 1990=100, age 15 and above)
Female economic activity rate (as % of male rate, age 15 and above)
Female employment in agriculture (as a % of female labour force)
Male employment in agriculture (as a % of male labour force)
Female employment in industry (as a % of female labour force)
Male employment in industry (as a % of male labour force)
Female employment in services (as a % of female labour force)
Male employment in services (as a % of male labour force)
Female contributing family workers (as % of total)
Male contributing family workers (as % of total)
26 Gender, work burden and time allocation
27 Women's political participation
Year women received right to vote
Year women received right to stand for election
Year first woman elected (E) or appointed (A) to parliament
Women in government at ministerial level (as % of total)
Seats in lower house or single house held by women (as % of total)
Seats in upper house or senate held by women (as % of total)

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HUMAN AND LABOUR RIGHTS INSTRUMENTS
28 Status of major international human rights instruments
International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination
International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights
International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights
Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women
Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment
Convention on the Rights of the Child
29 Status of fundamental labour rights conventions
Freedom of association and collective bargaining - Convention 87
Freedom of association and collective bargaining - Convention 98
Elimination of forced and compulsory labour - Convention 29
Elimination of forced and compulsory labour - Convention 105
Elimination of discrimination in respect of employment and occupation - Convention 100
Elimination of discrimination in respect of employment and occupation - Convention 111
Abolition of child labour - Convention 138
Abolition of child labour - Convention 182

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BASIC INDICATORS FOR OTHER UN MEMBER COUNTRIES
30 Basic indicators for other UN member countries

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MDG Indicators
MDG1 Goal 1: Eradicate extreme poverty and hunger - Goal 2: Achieve universal primary education
Population living below $1 a day (%)
Poverty gap ratio (%)
Share of poorest 20% in national income or consumption (%)
Children under weight for age (% under age 5)
Undernourished people (as % of total population)
Net primary enrolment ratio (%)
Children reaching grade 5 (%)
Youth literacy rate (% age 15-24)
MDG2 Goal 3: Promote gender equality and empower women
Ratio of girls to boys, in primary education
Ratio of girls to boys, in secondary education
Ratio of girls to boys, in tertiary education
Ratio of literate females to males (age 15-24)
Female share of non-agricultural wage employment (%)
Seats in parliament held by women (as % of total)
MDG3 Goal 4: Reduce child mortality - Goal 5: Improve maternal health
Under-five mortality rate (per 1,000 live births)
Infant mortality rate (per 1,000 live births)
One-year-olds fully immunized against measles (%)
Maternal mortality ratio (per 100,000 live births)
Births attended by skilled health personnel (%)
MDG4 Goal 6: Combat HIV/AIDS, malaria and other diseases
HIV prevalence among pregnant women aged 15-24 (%), in major urban areas
HIV prevalence among pregnant women aged 15-24 (%), outside major urban areas
Condom use at last high-risk sex (% age 15-24), female
Condom use at last high-risk sex (% age 15-24), male
Orphans' school attendance rate as % of non-orphans'
Malaria-related mortility rate (per 100,000), all ages
Malaria-related mortility rate (per 100,000), children aged 0-4
Malaria cases (per 100,000 people)
Children under 5 with insecticide-treated bed nets (%)
Children under 5 with fever treated with anti-malarial drugs (%)
Tuberculosis-related mortality rate (per 100,000 people)
Tuberculosis cases (per 100,000 people)
Tuberculosis cases detected under DOTS (%)
Tuberculosis cases cured under DOTS (%)
MDG5 Goal 7: Ensure environmental sustainability: land and air
Land area covered by forests (%)
Ratio of protected area to surface area
GDP per unit of energy use (PPP US$ per kg of oil equivalent)
Carbon dioxide emissions per capita (metric tons)
Consumption of ozone-depleting chlorofluorocarbons (ODP metric tons)
MDG6 Goal 7: Ensure environmental sustainability: water and sanitation
Population with sustainable access to an improved water source, rural (%)
Population with sustainable access to an improved water source, urban
Urban population with access to improved sanitation (%)
MDG7 Goal 8: Develop a global partnership for development: development assistance and market access
MDG8 Goal 8: Develop a global partnership for development: landlocked countries and small island developing states
MDG9 Goal 8: Develop a global partnership for development: debt sustainability
MDG10 Goal 8: Develop a global partnership for development: work opportunities, access to drugs and access to new technologies
Youth unemployment (% of labour force aged 15-24), total
Youth unemployment (% of labour force aged 15-24), female
Youth unemployment (% of labour force aged 15-24), male
Population with sustainable access to affordable essential drugs (%)
Telephone mainlines and cellular subscribers (per 100 people)
Internet users (per 100 people)
Personal computers in use (per 100 people)



Find Report
Year ------------ 2003 2002 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997 1996 1995 1994 1993 1992 1991 1990
Regional/National ------------ GLOBAL Reports ------------ REGIONAL Reports arab states caribbean central africa central america commonwealth of i east africa eastern europe north-east asia other pacific south america south asia south-east asia southern africa west africa ------------ NATIONAL Reports afghanistan albania algeria ana - azania anc - zimbabwe andorra angola anguilla antigua and barbu antilles (french) argentina armenia aruba australia austria azerbaijan bahamas bahrain baltic states (su bangladesh barbados belarus belgium belize benin bermuda bhutan bolivia bosnia and herceg botswana brazil brazil (rio de ja brazil (subin) brunei darussalam bulgaria burkina faso burundi cambodia cameroon canada cape verde caribbean (region cayman islands central african r central america chad chile china cis (regional) colombia comoros congo congo, dem. repub cook islands costa rica cote d'ivoire croatia cuba cyprus czech republic denmark djibouti dominica dominican republi dpr korea east african comm east timor ecuador egypt el salvador equatorial guinea equatorial guinea eritrea estonia ethiopia fiji finland france french overseas t gabon gambia georgia germany ghana gilbert islands global greece grenada guadeloupe guatemala guinea guinea (french) guinea-bissau guyana haiti holy see honduras hong kong hungary iceland india indonesia inter-regional iran iraq ireland israel italy jamaica japan jordan kazakhstan kenya khmer republic kiribati kosovo (autonomou kuwait kyrgyzstan lao latvia lebanon lesotho liberia libyan arab jamah liechtenstein lithuania luxembourg macao macedonia madagascar malawi malaysia maldives mali malta marshall islands martinique mauritania mauritius mexico micronesia moldova monaco mongolia montserrat morocco mozambique myanmar namibia nat liberation mo nauru nepal netherlands netherlands antil new caledonia new hebrides new zealand nicaragua niger nigeria niue norway occupied palestin oman pac - azania pae - zimbabwe pakistan palau panama papua new guinea paraguay patriotic front f peru philippines poland polynesia (french portugal portuguese territ puerto rico qatar republic of vietn reunion romania russian federatio rwanda saint helena saint kitts and n saint lucia saint vincent & g samoa samoa (usa) san marino sao tome and prin saudi arabia senegal seychelles sierra leone sikkim singapore slovak republic slovenia solomon islands somalia south africa south korea south pacific fun spain sri lanka sudan sudan (suba) suriname sw afric people's swaziland sweden switzerland syrian arab repub tajikistan tanzania thailand togo tokelau tonga trinidad and toba tunisia turkey turkmenistan turks and caicos tuvalu uganda ukraine undist - asia & t undist - latin am undist - nat libe undistributed - a undistributed (ot united arab emira united kingdom united states of uruguay uzbekistan vanuatu venezuela viet nam virgin islands (u virgin islands (u wallis and futuna west irian western sahara western samoa yemen yugoslavia zambia zimbabwe
Theme ------------ Civil Society Culture Decentralization Democracy Economic Crisis Economic Growth Economic Reform Education Employment Sustai Environment Food Security Gender General Globalization Governance Health HIV/AIDS Human Rights ICT Inequity Participation Peace & Security Poverty Regional /Rural D Role of State Science & Technol Social Cohesion - Sustainable Human Youth




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HDR2003
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