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Old 04-14-2008, 05:16 PM   #121
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Again, I honestly don't see what is so wrong about the term bitter. I feel like there's a lot of truth to it.
You don't see talking down to people is wrong and can appear arrogant?
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Old 04-14-2008, 05:23 PM   #122
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Quote:
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Again, I honestly don't see what is so wrong about the term bitter. I feel like there's a lot of truth to it.
There isn't anything wrong with "bitter." There is something wrong with saying that people have guns and go to church because they are bitter. I go to church and am a Christian because it gives me purpose and passion, not because I'm bitter.

Obama has it backwards. People aren't bitter because they don't have enough big government in their lives. They are bitter because of government.
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Old 04-14-2008, 05:24 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep

The "smart" thing to do
would have been just to say,


" I misspoke.

I was tired. People is small towns love this country. And we need to do a better job getting our message to them.

Hillary's message is better than McCains. We believe ours is the best.

Come November the people in small towns and big towns will realize our programs and policies are the change we all need to move this country forward."
I agree, and the use of the word bitter isn't the problem. He is an eloquent man and surely he realizes the power of words. Lesson learned, hopefully. He didn't say that their bitterness would prompt them into positive political action, if he had said that it would have been a unifying compliment. What he said could be interpreted by some to mean they turn into gun toting bigots-he did mention the guns and the antipathy and the immigration, there is no realistic way to deny that.
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Old 04-14-2008, 05:37 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


You don't see talking down to people is wrong and can appear arrogant?

I don't see what he said as talking down to people.


The clinging to guns and religion bit has some truth to it, but like any generalization, it's not entirely accurate.
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Old 04-14-2008, 05:40 PM   #125
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I think stereotyping and making generalizations is talking down to people, and it just disappoints me because I believe he is so much better than that. Isn't his whole life about rising above stereotypes and getting past them?
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Old 04-14-2008, 05:43 PM   #126
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Again, I refer back to the article I posted by the man who was actually at the speech.

If you look at the entire context, there is much more to it than the clinging to guns and religion piece. He realizes the situation is more complex than it is being portrayed, and I don't see why this 1 comment should overrule a lifetime of words and action that prove he is different.
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Old 04-14-2008, 05:45 PM   #127
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Who's saying it should overrule that? Saying it was an unwise comment doesn't mean writing him off as a candidate. I'm certainly not.
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Old 04-14-2008, 05:48 PM   #128
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I don't think anyone is suggesting at all that this one comment should override a lifetime of words and actions (I'm not), but running for President and facing Pennsylvania and other states, it will be taken out of the entire context and judged. It has been done to Sen Clinton and her husband and probably McCain too. That's just the way it is, fair or unfair.

If he said it the way he did on Charlie Rose I think he would have been much better off.
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Old 04-14-2008, 05:51 PM   #129
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So, if it's just a simple misstatement and he's proved by example that he's better than that, why won't people lay off?
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Old 04-14-2008, 05:56 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2democrat
Again, I refer back to the article I posted by the man who was actually at the speech.

If you look at the entire context, there is much more to it than the clinging to guns and religion piece. He realizes the situation is more complex than it is being portrayed, and I don't see why this 1 comment should overrule a lifetime of words and action that prove he is different.
I read that

what a waste

a tortured explanation

for a stupid remark

he should have just squashed it

this and remarks like "typical white people" will harm him with some voters


every candidate / politician misspeaks
it is only a question of how often, how much damage is done, and how they get passed it / put it behind them
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Old 04-14-2008, 05:57 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2democrat
So, if it's just a simple misstatement and he's proved by example that he's better than that, why won't people lay off?
he did not do the "smart" thing

he tried to nuance it

instead of saying I misspoke.
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Old 04-14-2008, 05:59 PM   #132
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And because that's campaign politics for you.
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Old 04-14-2008, 06:01 PM   #133
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I know, my point is, once again something is being blown way out of proportion and we're just going in circles.
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Old 04-14-2008, 06:02 PM   #134
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how is this some interesting remarks during a campaign?

"McCain was a fighter pilot, who dropped laser-guided missiles from 35,000 feet. He was long gone when they hit.

"What happened when they [the missiles] get to the ground? He doesn't know. You have to care about the lives of people. McCain never gets into those issues."
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Old 04-14-2008, 06:04 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2democrat
So, if it's just a simple misstatement and he's proved by example that he's better than that, why won't people lay off?
But that's the thing. Was it just a "misstatement?" Or was it a real look at what Barack Obama really believes, behind closed doors in San Francisco, of all places?

For a lot of people, the puzzle pieces might be coming together to see if this guy is actually some sort of radical: from his wife's comments to Rev Wright to "punished with a baby" and now this...

I also find it interesting that some Obama supporters (not necessarily in this forum, but I've seen some) who simply cannot stand that people are discussing this. They can't stand hearing anything negative about Obama, and they think it's outrageous for this man to be investigated and challenged on the way to the presidency.
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