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Old 04-12-2008, 01:08 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


711?
Reference to a Clinton coment about conveinent store employees...
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Old 04-12-2008, 01:35 AM   #17
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Originally posted by yolland
Eh, I wouldn't call it a 'slam' as the intent was clearly empathetic, but reductionist dimestore social analysis like that is better left to pundits and private campaign strategy meetings; too much risk of sounding patronizing.
I agree 100%. Reading the whole quote shows that his entent was empathetic and not at all talking down to them, but that is what it will sound like and be interpreted as by many. He could very easily have done what you suggest and leave it to the pundits. Anti trade sentiment and Anti immigration sentiment makes it sound a little too much like Obama is downplaying the very serious problems posed by illegal immigration as well as by trade agreements that do not have proper standards in them.(we need free trade, just with labor standards like the Peru deal)He would have done alot better to say that they blame a small part of the problem that needs to be fixed (NAFTA) for causing the decline of their industries when actually, it started in the mid 1970s and was pretty much gone by the end of the 1980s. Since then, we have seen, in the rust belt, the typical problems of lack of innovation, leaders stuck in the past and not willing to bring in new industries and spend on education, training, etc as being responsible for more job loss than NAFTA. (I know in the Ohio debate, a similar question came up and Russert pointed out that net exports from Ohio to Mexico and Canada were actually way up since NAFTA) Very good post!
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Old 04-12-2008, 08:35 AM   #18
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You have to remember that Obama's comments were made to wealthy Californian donors at a stop in $an Franci$co. These sort of views on religion, guns, trade, gay marriage, etc are par for the course.
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Old 04-12-2008, 02:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
This is all over the place.

Along with the Rev Wright blow up, and hatchet job he did on grandma.

He is really digging a hole for himself.

Obama stepped in a big pile here.

And needs to do more than keep stomping on it.

this is good
Quote:
“Now, I didn’t say it as well as I should have,” Mr. Obama said

he should have stopped there
or admitted it was another bone-headed mistake

instead is seems to be trying to put
lipstick on a pig
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Old 04-12-2008, 02:54 PM   #20
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^^oh ya, he's definitely done it now...

This nit-pciking attack is nothing more than desperation pure and simple. It's so funny to me... It never fails, he starts to gain ground in the polls and here comes the SLIME machine!!
I have 3 words for you..... BRING IT ON!!


Please look at his response....
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/
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Old 04-12-2008, 03:22 PM   #21
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I watched the 3:50 minute youtube clip

and it may satisfy his base

but, it will do little to expand it

to imply that people only vote the way they do about gay marriage and guns


because they are angry about economic issues is condescending
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Old 04-12-2008, 04:04 PM   #22
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If we're going to get nitpicky

about candidates satisfying their base

at the expense of those who are not their base

then I think you're gonna need to spread

that righteous indignation around.

Besides, Obama is hardly the worst offender


in that category.
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Old 04-12-2008, 04:09 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
Are these "they" and "them" people
"typical white people" ?
Yes. Of course it is.

He's out to get us.

It's all just a ruse.

When he wins, he'll outlaw white skin.

He's clearly a Black Panther Revolutionary out to get you, deep.
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Old 04-12-2008, 04:17 PM   #24
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His comments certainly don't seem to be the best way to win over the rural vote. Kind of hard to believe he wouldn't know such comments would raise some hackles.


*edit* I want to clarify I don't think he necessarily meant to slam anyone. I don't think he intentionally planned to set up an "us" against "them" situation, but I do think he didn't really give what he said much thought. That he didn't seem to realise that people -- people he is supposedly courting -- might feel slighted by his comment is worrisome in someone who's strong points are supposed to include being thoughtful and knowing how to connect with people.

Overall I think these are "rookie" mistakes, but if he doesn't doesn't stop making them soon they could be what sinks him. They will be exploited -- he or his advisors have to realise that.
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Old 04-12-2008, 05:03 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen
If we're going to get nitpicky

about candidates satisfying their base

at the expense of those who are not their base
I do understand that shoring up the base is mandatory

without a base

a candidate/ polotician is toast

The concept is to shore up the base

and then expand


That is something W never did

He only worked with the base

Bill Clinton was more successful
at expanding, that is why his popularity was always over 60%


McCain is able to expand
and that is why I am mostly confident that he will have success

Obama keeps having to retrench to shore up the base
because of his own undoing

with that he is not really expanding
and that is why I think he will not have success
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Old 04-12-2008, 05:20 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra
His comments certainly don't seem to be the best way to win over the rural vote. Kind of hard to believe he wouldn't know such comments would raise some hackles.
Just what did he say that was so wrong?
In my personal opinion he put it out there correctly. I say this because just this week I told someone I'm still voting for Hillary and he told me I can forget about that. I asked him what he had againist Hillary, be specific, he just said she can't win againist Mccain. There is still racial preducies
Then there was my friend from Florida who couldn't say anything other than 'It's the whole minority thing for some people." I ask her what she meant because she and I, as women, are that minority thing too. She just said not enough people will vote for Obama over McCain.
"But why, I ask. What is it that you are reading or researching about him that you would vote for McCain over Obama. She had no answer. Then another friend told me it's the way the people in her church is voting.(for either Clinton or McCain)
Point is people do cling on to other things when times are hard.
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Old 04-12-2008, 05:41 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by sue4u2
She just said not enough people will vote for Obama over McCain.
"But why, I ask. What is it that you are reading or researching about him that you would vote for McCain over Obama. She had no answer.

Honest to God,

forget about race and look at the whole resume'

I could care less about Obama's race

he is 1/2 white

if he was all white

I still would find it hard to vote for someone with his limited track record.

We have just suffered though 8 years with a novice in the white house

Why would people want to throw the dice again?

Are a lot of people allowing Obama's race to cloud their judgment?

We had this problem in 2000 where people allowed a person's name to cloud their judgment.

If W was not "George Bush, Jr." he never would have gotten elected, yet alone the GOP nomination.


If Obama does not win,
his race will have been a "net" positive
not a "negative".
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Old 04-12-2008, 05:44 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
Honest to God,

forget about race and look at the whole resume'

You do realize that plenty of us did look and didn't like what we saw?

I actually find your posts to Obama supporters to be quite a lot more condescending than anything he's said about any part of the electorate.
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Old 04-12-2008, 05:49 PM   #29
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it may have been inelegant and incomplete, but it was not incorrect.





i also remain astonished at the higher (impossible?) standards some in here are holding Obama to.

perhaps he just misspoke? i think i heard sniper fire in the background.

what's most telling is how he's responded to this. he's deepend and explained his remark, in contrast to a Senator (and President) who refuses to ever admit to an error.

the similarities between "novice" Obama and the "novice" Bush of 2000 are small, particularly when they're compared to the i-am-never-wrong style of Bush and the current Senator Clinton.
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Old 04-12-2008, 05:50 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
I actually find your posts to Obama supporters to be quite a lot more condescending than anything he's said about any part of the electorate.

ok

I am not couching my thoughts

just laying them out
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