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Old 04-14-2008, 06:54 PM   #151
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Originally posted by 2861U2
How does this pertain to the topic?
Do you really honestly believe that Obama hates rural, poor people? It's just as asinine of a proposition as when some were saying that he hates white people. Never mind he's half-white and once fit into that demographic himself.

And, yet, in spite of everything else that he's stated that makes him a stand-up fellow, you're ready to dismiss him in favor a man with a pattern of severe anger management issues and has stated that he knows very little about economic issues?

I guess there really is such a thing as partisan blinders.
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Old 04-14-2008, 06:57 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon

Make no mistake about it. "Rural folk" might vote for McCain, because they hate Democrats and are now insulted by what Obama said here. But a vote for McCain will just be a vote to put another nail into their own coffins.

I don't disagree

I do believe the GOP has been successful at getting a good portion of the working class vote

and the tax cuts go primarily to the rich

and the working stiffs are left to pay the debt


defending these remarks of Obama's is just plain stupid

these remarks can end up costing the election
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Old 04-14-2008, 06:58 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep



defending these remarks of Obama's is just plain stupid

So is making such a huge deal out of them.
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Old 04-14-2008, 07:00 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Do you really honestly believe that Obama hates rural, poor people?
no

but more importantly

is he "smart" enough to think about what he says
so that enough of those people will vote for him to win the election?
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Old 04-14-2008, 07:01 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
Obama's "small town" speech, was in a room full of people this weekend
as was the Rep. Geoff Davis "Obama boy" speech
So let's get this clear:

If you are a Republican, you can be an alcoholic drug addict who served in a Vietnam-era National Guard champagne unit--with poor attendance--and get a free pass.

If you are a Democrat, even a whisper of an accusation of being "unpatriotic," despite having an otherwise flawless wartime record, you're a traitor that should never be president.

If you are a Republican, you can be an irritable jackass with a bad temper that your fellow party colleagues are loathe to see as president, and a faux-"maverick" with a very conservative voting record and a self-admitted lack of knowledge of economic issues, and get a free pass.

If you are a Democrat, you can have a series of speeches and campaign issues that are considered very friendly to the working class, but if you make one gaffe that sounds bad, then you clearly an elitist that hates poor people.

For God's sake, no wonder we elect such terrible presidents in this country. Maybe Obama should just run as a Republican next time, because then he'll be allowed to be human.
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Old 04-14-2008, 07:04 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep

no

but more importantly

is he "smart" enough to think about what he says
so that enough of those people will vote for him to win the election?
If you're expecting a saint to run for the Democratic nomination, you'll never get it.

We have to stop fixating on semantics and take a look at a candidates entire record and entire platform.

(Of course, if you're a Republican, you can be borderline retarded with a terrible grasp of English and several verbal gaffes ["There's black people in Brazil?"], and get a free pass too.)
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Old 04-14-2008, 07:06 PM   #157
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Originally posted by martha
So is making such a huge deal out of them.
why

it might upset the FYM universe?

You and I both know our votes mean nothing to the Nov election

CA will go Dem.


I am only having this discussion in light of how these things will effect the upcoming elections

and so far
it looks like Hillary will do better in Penn
because of this.

Obama had a good shot at taking her out there, before this major fuck-up

and now some are saying it could go all the way to the November election


I state these things, not because I necessarily want them to happen

it is only my opinions of how I think things will go
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Old 04-14-2008, 07:06 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
defending these remarks of Obama's is just plain stupid

these remarks can end up costing the election
I know. We just prefer presidents who blatantly lie to us instead.
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Old 04-14-2008, 07:08 PM   #159
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Geeze, you might want to calm down.
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


If you are a Republican, you can be an alcoholic drug addict who served in a Vietnam-era National Guard champagne unit--with poor attendance--and get a free pass.
When/where was the free pass? He was certainly scrutinized for his past behavior.

Quote:
Originally posted by melon
If you are a Democrat, even a whisper of an accusation of being "unpatriotic," despite having an otherwise flawless wartime record, you're a traitor that should never be president.
Who's calling him a traitor? I don't want him to ever be president, but it's for a million reasons, not just this "bitter" thing.

Quote:
Originally posted by melon
If you are a Republican, you can be an irritable jackass with a bad temper that your fellow party colleagues are loathe to see as president, and a faux-"maverick" with a very conservative voting record and a self-admitted lack of knowledge of economic issues, and get a free pass.
Again, where's the free pass?

Quote:
Originally posted by melon
If you are a Democrat, you can have a series of speeches and campaign issues that are considered very friendly to the working class, but if you make one gaffe that sounds bad, then you clearly an elitist that hates poor people.
It's been more than one "gaffe."

Quote:
Originally posted by melon
For God's sake, no wonder we elect such terrible presidents in this country. Maybe Obama should just run as a Republican next time, because then he'll be allowed to be human.
I'm allowing him to be human. I want him to be human. So far, all I've seen are slogans and empty calls for change and hope and unity. I want to see who Obama really is, and I think I am starting to now.
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Old 04-14-2008, 07:09 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


(Of course, if you're a Republican, you can be borderline retarded with a terrible grasp of English and several verbal gaffes ["There's black people in Brazil?"], and get a free pass too.)
Mr. Obama has had plenty of verbal gaffes, as well. You take away his precious prompter and this guy has trouble putting a sentence together.
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Old 04-14-2008, 07:17 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2
Geeze, you might want to calm down.


Moving on...

Quote:
When/where was the free pass? He was certainly scrutinized for his past behavior.
Really? You could have fooled me. Take all of Bush's traits and graft them onto a Democrat, and you'd have had the most scrutinized candidate ever. Instead, we just had some shits and giggles on late night TV, and voted him into office twice.

Quote:
Who's calling him a traitor? I don't want him to ever be president, but it's for a million reasons, not just this "bitter" thing.
Well, I'm referring to Kerry here. "Swift boating," anyone?

Quote:
Again, where's the free pass?
Where are the ad infinitum news articles questioning whether McCain is fit to be president? Whether he's blown the election? Instead, he gets a brief mention on the equivalent of the C section of the newspaper that few people ever saw.

Quote:
It's been more than one "gaffe."
If we did a sheer count, I'm guessing that McCain would take the cake. What about telling all those "poor people" that their jobs were gone and never coming back, and they should pretty much just deal with it? What about "Maverick McCain" repeatedly stumping for Bush during the 2004 election? Maybe we need to question not only his temperament, but also his judgment.

But that's right. He's a Republican, so we don't need to fixate on that. He's a good ol' boy who loves America; that's all we need to know!

Quote:
I'm allowing him to be human. I want him to be human. So far, all I've seen are slogans and empty calls for change and hope and unity. I want to see who Obama really is, and I think I am starting to now.
http://www.barackobama.com/index.php

There. Read. There's a whole menu called "Issues."
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Old 04-14-2008, 07:25 PM   #162
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Originally posted by 2861U2
Mr. Obama has had plenty of verbal gaffes, as well. You take away his precious prompter and this guy has trouble putting a sentence together.
Isn't this the rhetorical equivalent of "I know you are, but what am I?"

Again, if you're looking for a saint as president, you will fail every time. If you use partisan blinders to look for every last flaw in the other party, while neglecting the flaws in your own party, then you can see why we, as a nation, have a flat-out inability to pick competent leaders.

My dislike of McCain is not based on disparate lines from speeches. It's from a consistent pattern of behavior, his long-term voting record, and comments that flat-out cannot be misinterpreted, such as his "glee" in pointing out that he knows little about economic issues. This would represent the totality of a candidate.

Your dislike of Obama seems to be based on general stereotypes ("he doesn't seem to stand for anything") and a handful of verbal gaffes that run contrary to his record and his overall stances.

It just looks like you're looking for any excuse to justify your usual Republican voting pattern.

I'm not asking you or anyone here to vote for Obama specifically. I'm asking everyone here to do their homework, for once, because Americans have a consistent pattern of laziness when it comes to election time. They vote on image over substance, and look where the hell that's gotten us?
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Old 04-14-2008, 07:26 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Really? You could have fooled me. Take all of Bush's traits and graft them onto a Democrat, and you'd have had the most scrutinized candidate ever.
We can go back and forth all day on this, though. If a Republican had a 20-year relationship with a Reverend Wright character, not only would he immediately have no chance of winning a primary or general election, but the far left and the media would be calling for his head.


Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Where are the ad infinitum news articles questioning whether McCain is fit to be president? Whether he's blown the election? Instead, he gets a brief mention on the equivalent of the C section of the newspaper that few people ever saw.
Turn on the news. I bet you'll find someone, somewhere talking about McCain's temper or his struggle to win conservatives or his age or his statement about his economic knowledge.



Quote:
Originally posted by melon
http://www.barackobama.com/index.php

There. Read. There's a whole menu called "Issues."
But I'm not voting for a well-written, organized website. I'm voting for a person who is continuing to give us insights into his real life and his values. So please, Obama, be yourself. Keep on telling us what you really feel about people in this country. I'm all ears.
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Old 04-14-2008, 07:27 PM   #164
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Originally posted by 2861U2
You take away his precious prompter and this guy has trouble putting a sentence together.
You mean yer guy W?
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Old 04-14-2008, 07:28 PM   #165
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Originally posted by melon



Your dislike of Obama seems to be based on general stereotypes ("he doesn't seem to stand for anything") and a handful of verbal gaffes that run contrary to his record and his overall stances.
Don't worry, it's much more. I'm more worried about his liberal views on issues. That is why he will not get my vote. These other gaffes are just fun extras.
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