Obama General Discussion, vol. 4

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Yep, you nailed it. The only reason I dislike President Obama's spending, overstepping of executive powers, growth of government, and petty politicking is because he's a black man. I wondered when someone would figure this out. Good job.

Note the use of the words "far right". If you aren't part of that far right group, you're likely not whom she's referring to.

BVS's questions are worthwhile ones, though. All this stuff bothers the conservatives so much, and yet I didn't hear a single peep from them during the Bush years, or at least, they didn't join others in protest at times when the support really could've been needed. Why is that?

And agreed on Rush, too. If it is an act, he may want to make that clear. He keeps fueling the fire, and he's not helping anything.
 
If it is an act, he may want to make that clear. He keeps fueling the fire, and he's not helping anything.

No way in hell would he want to make that clear. And his job is, apparently, to fuel the fire.

He just likes his paycheck, I guess. Saying shitty things about people and groups of people for money. Can I call him a whore, or would that make me a bad feminist?
 
Yep, you nailed it. The only reason I dislike President Obama's spending, overstepping of executive powers, growth of government, and petty politicking is because he's a black man. I wondered when someone would figure this out. Good job.

So you must equate yourself with Limbaugh's racists rants then since you jumped to the conclusion I was attacking anyone including you, who criticizes the President. No I am not. I said the "far right" aka, the extreme right. I don't care if you don't like the President. Good for you have at it.

Oh by the way, the overstepping of exec.powers ( EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE in other words if that is what you mean) lest we forget was used 6 times under GWBush, the MOST of any president in US history!
 
No way in hell would he want to make that clear. And his job is, apparently, to fuel the fire.

He just likes his paycheck, I guess. Saying shitty things about people and groups of people for money. Can I call him a whore, or would that make me a bad feminist?

Anyone who makes money saying nasty things just to say them doesn't exactly look good in my eyes either, so call him whatever you want.
 
You know what I wonder? Why those on the right didn't dislike Bush's spending, overstepping executive powers, growth of government and petty politicking?

And why don't you dislike Romney's? Well he hasn't had a chance to overstep federal executive powers, but everything else he's proven, so give him time, right?

Here's what I don't get. The formation of the Tea Party and the hatred towards Obama started well before he even enacted anything. Why is that? How come the first Tea Party rally was being held on Tax day of Obama's first year? Why did they wait to protests Bush's policies after he got out of office, but why were they choosing to make their hateful signs about Obama instead of Bush?

I think if you were being honest with yourself you know the answers. Maybe not you, but a good portion of the right are hating not based on policy. Even Glenn Beck said himself during the primaries that if the right chose to rally behind Romney he had to wonder if it was based on race this whole time(of course he's chosen to ignore that statement now :shrug:).

I can't speak for everyone on the right, but personally I despised Bush as a president. And judging by his approval ratings, so did a good deal of the right. Those who did approve of his presidency, as far as I can see, probably did so more so because of his foreign policy rather than his economics.

So you must equate yourself with Limbaugh's racists rants then since you jumped to the conclusion I was attacking anyone including you, who criticizes the President. No I am not. I don't care if you don't like the President. Good for you have at it.

Oh by the way, the overstepping of exec.powers ( EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE in other words if that is what you mean) lest we forget was used 6 times under GWBush, the MOST of any president in US history!

I equate myself with the economically far right, which is the group you singled out; not racists.

As far as the oversteps of executive powers, someone here (probably INDY if I had to guess) made a good point. GWB made many executive orders that were in the gray area of constitutionality, but he made them in the area that the President is granted most control over: foreign policy. President Obama, on the other hand, made the majority of his gray executive orders in the area the President is granted LEAST control over: legislation.
 
I equate myself with the economically far right, which is the group you singled out; not racists.

:scratch: What are you talking about? Show me where I mentioned the economically far right ( whatever that means); this is what I said:

<<Oh but wait I keep forgetting, the far right wants us to believe black is white, up is down and hate is ok if there is black guy in the white house>>
 
I think the right simply hates anything that appears to be liberal, because liberalism = socialism = communism = totalitarian Germany. I don't think Joe Biden would win many fans among the Obama haters simply because he is a white guy from the tough streets of Scranton.
 
What exactly do you think right, in a political sense, means?

There is more to the" right" than being fiscally conservative. Hello Caption Obvious. :D

I am talking about the extreme voices that include Limbaugh who seems to dictate the talking points to the leaders in R-party and they then regurgitate the vileness and flat out lies on a daily basis.

The Republican Party of the past is not what it is today because your party ( assumption) has been hyjacked by people on the extreme right who believe as I said; up is down, black is white, wrong is right, and hate is ok. I am not saying everyone that is a Republican is a radical far right wacho that thinks hate is ok.
 
Yet for some reason they were never vocal about it till he left the office. :hmm: So you can see why some are frustrated?

I do see why, and I can sympathize with that. My issue is this: because some conservatives did play party politics 00-08, it now seems like NO criticism of Obama's spending policies are allowed. Conservatives did make mistakes in not coming out harder against Bush's policies, but maybe they're finally waking up. Just because they once ignored such economic irresponsibility doesn't mean they should have to ignore all economic irresponsibility for the rest of time, y'know?
 
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I think the right simply hates anything that appears to be liberal, because liberalism = socialism = communism = totalitarian Germany. I don't think Joe Biden would win many fans among the Obama haters simply because he is a white guy from the tough streets of Scranton.

I find this criticism of the right far, far more tolerable.
 
it now seems like NO criticism of Obama's policies are allowed.

Criticize all you want. You would have some here on the left who would actually agree with some of your critiques. He's got ties to Wall Street. He's got corporate influence, too. We're still not fully out of Afghanistan and Iraq. He hasn't closed Guantanamo Bay. The drone strikes can be worthy debate. A few things to start off with.

I just want the criticisms from conservatives to be based in logical, rational arguments, and not tired old cries of, "He's a socialist/communist/Marxist!" or "He's a secret Muslim who's destroying America!" or nonsensical crap like that. Unfortunately that's the loudest argument out there. And it'd be great if the more sane conservatives out there would tell the extremists saying such crazy things to shut up.
 
I do see why, and I can sympathize with that. My issue is, some conservatives did play party politics 00-08, it now seems like NO criticism of Obama's policies are allowed.

No criticism? Really?
It seems to me that criticism of Pres.Obama has been tolerated and even repeated by the so called "left wing media" ad nausem. In fact there was report not long ago citing how many more negative reports about him were out there over Romney.

Let's see. Remember when Bill Maher's show Politially Incorrect was cancelled because he criticized the GWB admin after 9/11?

Then there was Phil Donahue on MSNBC who was cancelled as well because his voice was too "extreme" for the corporate media.

SHow cancelation is the ultimate.

Hmmm. Show us the equivilant on the right. I can't think of any.
 
Criticize all you want. You would have some here on the left who would actually agree with some of your critiques. He's got ties to Wall Street. He's got corporate influence, too. We're still not fully out of Afghanistan and Iraq. He hasn't closed Guantanamo Bay. The drone strikes can be worthy debate. A few things to start off with.

I just want the criticisms from conservatives to be based in logical, rational arguments, and not tired old cries of, "He's a socialist/communist/Marxist!" or "He's a secret Muslim who's destroying America!" or nonsensical crap like that. Unfortunately that's the loudest argument out there. And it'd be great if the more sane conservatives out there would tell the extremists saying such crazy things to shut up.

Thank you. You said it better than I could!:up::applaud:
 
I just want the criticisms from conservatives to be based in logical, rational arguments, and not tired old cries of, "He's a socialist/communist/Marxist!" or "He's a secret Muslim who's destroying America!"

I completely agree that those types of attacks lower the level of political dialogue in the country; nearly every time I hear a conservative bring up the birth certificate, his religion, etc. I call them down on it.

But the criticisms I was talking about were completely different. I criticized
President Obama's spending, overstepping of executive powers, growth of government, and petty politicking

which was responded to with

You know what I wonder? Why those on the right didn't dislike Bush's spending, overstepping executive powers, growth of government and petty politicking?

My point was that liberals often seem to think that because Bush wasn't criticized as much as he should've been on the above things, Obama can't be, either.
 
I do see why, and I can sympathize with that. My issue is this: because some conservatives did play party politics 00-08, it now seems like NO criticism of Obama's spending policies are allowed. Conservatives did make mistakes in not coming out harder against Bush's policies, but maybe they're finally waking up. Just because they once ignored such economic irresponsibility doesn't mean they should have to ignore all economic irresponsibility for the rest of time, y'know?

No, please let's debate Obama's spending policies. Please. Except that's not where the far right stop, they have to turn it into some "he's anti-american", "anti-capitalism", "socialist", bullshit. Vitriol was high during Bush's presidency, I won't deny that, but the right has turned it up 200%. The average voter I can give a pass for not saying anything during Bush's presidency, but the politicians and talking heads now all come off as hypocrites.

My point was that liberals often seem to think that because Bush wasn't criticized as much as he should've been on the above things, Obama can't be, either.

Then I think you're missing what many of us are saying.
 
I have a hard time taking most conservative hand-wringing about the spending seriously. In real life people understand that when times are tough you MUST do two things: cut your spending (no more daily lattes or eating out so much) and increase your income (take a second job, invest some money). The conservative insistence on cutting taxes at this time makes me question how seriously most of them really are about dealing with the debt/deficit spending. It feels to me more like a stick to hit Obama with which is why the objection to Bush's spending was far more muted.

The whole sanctimonious lecturing about his spending really strikes me as political point-scoring.

Likewise, I do think those of a liberal viewpoint need to recognize that the scope of our problem. We keep saying things like we MUST spend on infrastructure, and we MUST have health care (and there's no doubt we MUST) but what if we simply don't have the money? What then?

There's one person on this forum (without any disrespect to anyone else here) that I think has clearly articulated both sides of this issue and really faced the hard question. I can't remember who it is--I want to say digitize--but this poster is the only one I've ever seen acknowledge the real problem which is that we--BOTH liberals and conservatives--want a government that is bigger than we're willing to pay for. Every time I read those posts I just want to applaud. Finally someone who is really telling the straight truth--not this bullshit "truthiness" Rush Limbaugh and his ilk are preaching.

We all want it both ways and the difference in ideology really boils down to difference of degree and emphasis.
 
Saw it on Drudge Report, so I know it is true


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US PARTNERS WITH MEXICO TO BOOST FOOD STAMP ROLLS



We are going broke, and the president wants to take tax dollars to feed illegal residents.

Most important election in the history of this country. We need to get back to what the founders believed in, hard work and allowing people to choose to help the deserving less fortunate.
 
Talk about creating a distraction out of nothing and taking this way out of context and blowing it out of porportion. Look at the shiney things over here....ewwwww pretty shiney things....

Could he have said that better sure, but come on.

The screaming headlines should be why Romney won't release his tax statements. Hiding something there Mitt??

Yes... just a distraction from what's really important; Mitt's tax returns, Mitt's Swiss bank accounts and Bain. :|

I smell a rat.

sk071312dAPR20120713124521.jpg


I smell a fish.
 
Hey, the right felt like they HAD to get proof of Obama's birth certificate, so now it's our turn *Shrugs*.

Besides, I would think one would want to know about his taxes. I mean, after all, there are those out there who are yelling at us lower-class people who are under or unemployed because we're "refusing" to pay our fair share in taxes, if we pay at all ('cause naturally we're opting out just for the hell of it). So if Romney's hiding money in tax havens to avoid paying what he's supposed to pay, I expect those same people criticizing us will be just as upset with him for tax dodging, right?

I completely agree that those types of attacks lower the level of political dialogue in the country; nearly every time I hear a conservative bring up the birth certificate, his religion, etc. I call them down on it.

But the criticisms I was talking about were completely different. I criticized

which was responded to with



My point was that liberals often seem to think that because Bush wasn't criticized as much as he should've been on the above things, Obama can't be, either.

Apologies, then (and I'm glad you're in agreement on the type of "criticism" that doesn't help).

But that's not exactly what liberals are saying. What they're saying is, Obama's doing a lot of the same things Bush did, and if someone wants to criticize Obama for that stuff, fine, but the same criticism should've been leveled at Bush as well. And to stay quiet when Bush did all this stuff only to suddenly get all vocal when Obama does it, well, either we wonder what took people so long or we have to think there might be other reasons for the criticism, reasons that have nothing to do with those actual issues at hand.
 
all i know is for most of bush's presidency if anyone dared to criticise him for the slightest thing, we got attacked for being unamerican. yet if the right does the same to obama...what? i don't hear the left saying that, and i guess now that there is a democrat in power it's suddenly not unamerican to criticise the president? so much for that united front many loved to go on about during that rah-rah wrap yourself in the american flag period.

it didn't seem like anyone from the right wanted to admit maybe bush wasn't amazing and perfect until aboooout, umm...2008? right about when he entered lame duck territory and the economy turned to shit. though even now the latter's still being placed solely on obama's shoulders when it sure as hell wasn't his fault the economy stunk when he became president. (and before anyone attacks me for that comment, no i'm not talking about how the economy is now, i'm talking in january 2009 only.)
 
all i know is for most of bush's presidency if anyone dared to criticise him for the slightest thing, we got attacked for being unamerican. yet if the right does the same to obama...what? i don't hear the left saying that, and i guess now that there is a democrat in power it's suddenly not unamerican to criticise the president? so much for that united front many loved to go on about during that rah-rah wrap yourself in the american flag period.

Yeah, every last word of this. "Love it or leave it", remember, everyone?
 
Yeah, every last word of this. "Love it or leave it", remember, everyone?
exactly. we were told if we hated it, we should move to france. the left (well aside from maybe some fringe lefties but i'm talking about the masses here, on both sides) has said nothing of the sort since obama's presidency. the closest i can think of is when people have made threats like "if obamacare becomes legal i'll move to..." and then we wondered in jest if they really would, knowing they were full of shit.
 
exactly. we were told if we hated it, we should move to france. the left (well aside from maybe some fringe lefties but i'm talking about the masses here, on both sides) has said nothing of the sort since obama's presidency. the closest i can think of is when people have made threats like "if obamacare becomes legal i'll move to..." and then we wondered in jest if they really would, knowing they were full of shit.

The low point of that era seemed to me to be the Dixie Chicks thing. That whole episode was pretty disturbing, the way a relatively small number of people in the media and political circles could whip up a quasi-fascist witchhunt against what was seen as dissent.
 
Absolutely. What they said wasn't even that big a deal. Ashamed to be from the same state as Bush. (Not sure what else Maines said later to add fuel to the fire, but that's what started it all off.)

Ted Nugent says threatening shit about Obama .... and he gets trotted out as some bullshit prime example of "real Americans" or whatever on Fox News.
 
I saw that documentary about it. 'Shut Up And Sing'? I think it was called.
It's fucking stupid how something so trivial basically ruined their career.

1 album over the last ten years.

And it wasn't like they were a shitty band like so many other modern country acts.
They were pretty damn good.
 
i saw the Chicks in DC not long after the controversy. great concert. they nearly sold out the Verizon Center. when they played "Not Ready To Make Nice" the crowd went bonkers and held up WE LOVE YOU signs. and it was awesome -- they're really good musicians. it's too bad Natalie is a little person and they force her to stand on what are essentially stilts and as a result she can't move around much.
 
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