Obama General Discussion, vol. 4

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Actually the Obama Administration argued before the supreme Court that Obamacare is constitutional under the Commerce Clause. Gay Rights advocates argue for marriage equality under the 14th Amendment and conservatives (and unevolved Democrats) argue against both using the 10th amendment.

I was talking more in a "your average public" sense overall.

I've no doubt some people use the 14th and 10th amendments for their cases in their conversations, but I rarely ever hear them used in the debates I'm a part of. Especially with the 10th amendment ones. In those instances I always seem to hear arguments instead that say gay rights are "against God's will" or that Obamacare will lead to death panels or something of that sort.
 
Roger’s Rules � Obama by the numbers

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No doubt Bush's fault.

(and the federal debt actually just passed 100% of GDP so the chart has a misprint)

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but all of those things have been gradually happening for years. Bush made it worse and possibly sped up the process, but I'm willing to say that we've had these issues for decades. The changes have just been so gradual and slow that people keep attributing them to fluctuations and good years/bad years until finally we realized what was going on.

Put it this way. I adopt a dog, and the past few owners have not taken very good care of it. The dog is sick, and needs help, but it is beyond my ability to treat. I do the best I can, but the dog gets worse and hits its record low under my care. Is that my fault?

Now Obama's done a lot of stupid things, and he's been just as detrimental to this country as he's been helpful, but anyone who thinks that if someone else had been voted in this (unemployment rate, housing crash, etc) wouldn't be happening is just plain blind.
 
The tenth amendment pisses me off, because it implies that state governments are somehow inherently better than the federal government at everything. There are absolutely things that states should handle and the federal government should lay off, but civil rights issues are not one of them.
 
PhilsFan said:
The tenth amendment pisses me off, because it implies that state governments are somehow inherently better than the federal government at everything. There are absolutely things that states should handle and the federal government should lay off, but civil rights issues are not one of them.

But the Constitution is utterly infallible!
 
Penn throws out some "interesting" questions, that if independents and undecideds considered them, would lead them to be less likely to vote for Obama
 
Penn throws out some "interesting" questions, that if independents and undecideds considered them, would lead them to be less likely to vote for Obama

He does, but those questions don't exactly play into Romney's hands either.

You mentioned the libertarian vote, and I think you're right. I think there are a lot of young people who are very attracted to the libertarian line of thinking, but how that translates is hard to tell. Will they actually vote libertarian, stay home, or vote for the one they find to be the lesser of the two evils? Hard to tell :shrug:
 
this is all predicated upon us having a fairly close election in Nov.

that comes down to who takes the time to show up and vote.

Obama had a fairly broad coalition in 2008, if he loses 2-3 % of those 2008 voters to the Libertarians, a few more to apathy he will have a problem.

As for the independents, I can say that Obama appealed more to them in 2008 than Bush/ Cheney / Alberto Gonzales / WMD lies
all that worked against the GOP in favor of Obama

Romney is seen as a goody two shoes, not likely that got away with any felonies like Obama ( did a little blow )
 
actually they are the ones that are voting
have you seen Ron Paul supporters, they show up at cauci and polls in large numbers

it is the 2008 Democratic liberal youth voters that did not bother to register or vote in 2010 that gave the big win to the Tea Party, and looking at what some in here have posted, they will not be reliable in November.
 
Now Obama's done a lot of stupid things, and he's been just as detrimental to this country as he's been helpful, but anyone who thinks that if someone else had been voted in this (unemployment rate, housing crash, etc) wouldn't be happening is just plain blind.
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KhanadaRhodes said:
massive tax cuts* fix everything!

* in everything except defense because we gotta stay the course and blow shit up

Actually, those probably would have helped things (it's still Keynesian stimulus), but not if accompanied by extreme austerity. The latter is what would have been scary.
 
The reality is that a president McCain would likely have pursued a very similar stimulus as well, because it was the only rational course of action.

And the GOP would be falling all over itself about 21 straight months of job growth and having avoided a second Great Depression.
 
Someone should tell the conspiracy nut jobs that you throw a football differently than a baseball. Especially if your hands are too small to properly palm the ball. They should also explain jpeg artifacting
 
Dropping this article from 2008 in here about the disaster of Guantanamo because I haven't seen the issue outlined so clearly before. Key paragraphs:

Before we get to the new statistics corroborating this startling fact, a quick review of how the detainees got to Guantanamo in the first place is helpful. Given the fog of propaganda surrounding the Guantanamo prisoners -- whom former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld once famously described as the worst of the worst -- you might be surprised to learn that, according to the Pentagon itself, only 5 percent of detainees at the prison were ever apprehended by U.S. forces to begin with. And only another 4 percent were ever alleged to have actually been fighting at all.

Why is that? Almost all of the detainees were turned over to U.S. forces by foreigners, either with an ax to grind or, more often, for a hefty bounty or reward. After U.S. forces invaded Afghanistan in late 2001, they doled out rewards of about $5,000 or more to Pakistanis and Afghans for each detainee turned over. Contrary to standard law enforcement practice, the U.S. military accepted the uncorroborated allegations of the award claimants with little independent investigation.

Now, under much pressure, the Pentagon has released more than 500 detainees over the past three years, while some 270 remain. Based on statistics about the fate of other released prisoners in other contexts, it would not have been surprising if many of these men had resumed their lives of terrorist crimes and illegal warfare. In the United States, more than two thirds of state prisoners are rearrested for serious new crimes within three years, according to the Department of Justice.

Terrorists are criminals too -- indeed, ideologically committed ones. Every reasonable expectation would lead to the conclusion that the rate of recidivism for terrorists should be as high as, if not higher than, it is for other criminals. But guess what happened to the more than 500 terrorist detainees that the United States has released during the last three years? Only a handful has gone back to terrorism or the battlefield.

You can be harsh without being a dunderheaded moron, but we got both.
 
Obama Awards Medal of Freedom to Democratic Socialists of America Chair

Obama Awards Medal of Freedom to Democratic Socialists of America Chair

President Obama awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom on Tuesday to Dolores Huerta, an 82-year-old labor activist and co-founder of the United Farm Workers union.

Huerta is also an honorary chair of the Democratic Socialists of America.

DSA describes itself as “the largest socialist organization in the United States, and the principal U.S. affiliate of the Socialist International.”

Huerta has claimed, “Republicans hate Latinos,” and has spoken fondly of Hugo Chavez’s despotic regime in Venezuela.

:doh: Just keep repeating; he's a pragmatic centrist, he's a pragmatic centrist, he's a pragmatic centrist...
 
:doh: Just keep repeating; he's a pragmatic centrist, he's a pragmatic centrist, he's a pragmatic centrist...

Wow, we're really stretching aren't we?

He also awarded George H, so I guess he's secretly Republican too?

There's a school in Texas named after this HONORARY chair of the Democratic Socialists of America, do you think Texas is becoming socialist?

Desperation is a tender trap my friend.
 
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