Obama General Discussion, vol. 4 - Page 38 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-18-2012, 05:23 PM   #556
War Child
 
Caleb8844's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 662
Local Time: 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel View Post

I just want the criticisms from conservatives to be based in logical, rational arguments, and not tired old cries of, "He's a socialist/communist/Marxist!" or "He's a secret Muslim who's destroying America!"
I completely agree that those types of attacks lower the level of political dialogue in the country; nearly every time I hear a conservative bring up the birth certificate, his religion, etc. I call them down on it.

But the criticisms I was talking about were completely different. I criticized
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb8844 View Post
President Obama's spending, overstepping of executive powers, growth of government, and petty politicking
which was responded to with

Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
You know what I wonder? Why those on the right didn't dislike Bush's spending, overstepping executive powers, growth of government and petty politicking?
My point was that liberals often seem to think that because Bush wasn't criticized as much as he should've been on the above things, Obama can't be, either.
__________________

__________________
Caleb8844 is offline  
Old 07-18-2012, 05:39 PM   #557
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,698
Local Time: 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb8844 View Post
I do see why, and I can sympathize with that. My issue is this: because some conservatives did play party politics 00-08, it now seems like NO criticism of Obama's spending policies are allowed. Conservatives did make mistakes in not coming out harder against Bush's policies, but maybe they're finally waking up. Just because they once ignored such economic irresponsibility doesn't mean they should have to ignore all economic irresponsibility for the rest of time, y'know?
No, please let's debate Obama's spending policies. Please. Except that's not where the far right stop, they have to turn it into some "he's anti-american", "anti-capitalism", "socialist", bullshit. Vitriol was high during Bush's presidency, I won't deny that, but the right has turned it up 200%. The average voter I can give a pass for not saying anything during Bush's presidency, but the politicians and talking heads now all come off as hypocrites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb8844 View Post
My point was that liberals often seem to think that because Bush wasn't criticized as much as he should've been on the above things, Obama can't be, either.
Then I think you're missing what many of us are saying.
__________________

__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 07-18-2012, 06:31 PM   #558
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 01:29 PM
I have a hard time taking most conservative hand-wringing about the spending seriously. In real life people understand that when times are tough you MUST do two things: cut your spending (no more daily lattes or eating out so much) and increase your income (take a second job, invest some money). The conservative insistence on cutting taxes at this time makes me question how seriously most of them really are about dealing with the debt/deficit spending. It feels to me more like a stick to hit Obama with which is why the objection to Bush's spending was far more muted.

The whole sanctimonious lecturing about his spending really strikes me as political point-scoring.

Likewise, I do think those of a liberal viewpoint need to recognize that the scope of our problem. We keep saying things like we MUST spend on infrastructure, and we MUST have health care (and there's no doubt we MUST) but what if we simply don't have the money? What then?

There's one person on this forum (without any disrespect to anyone else here) that I think has clearly articulated both sides of this issue and really faced the hard question. I can't remember who it is--I want to say digitize--but this poster is the only one I've ever seen acknowledge the real problem which is that we--BOTH liberals and conservatives--want a government that is bigger than we're willing to pay for. Every time I read those posts I just want to applaud. Finally someone who is really telling the straight truth--not this bullshit "truthiness" Rush Limbaugh and his ilk are preaching.

We all want it both ways and the difference in ideology really boils down to difference of degree and emphasis.
__________________
maycocksean is offline  
Old 07-19-2012, 02:43 PM   #559
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 10:29 AM
Saw it on Drudge Report, so I know it is true

Quote:



US PARTNERS WITH MEXICO TO BOOST FOOD STAMP ROLLS


We are going broke, and the president wants to take tax dollars to feed illegal residents.

Most important election in the history of this country. We need to get back to what the founders believed in, hard work and allowing people to choose to help the deserving less fortunate.
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 07-19-2012, 10:53 PM   #560
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeannieco View Post
Talk about creating a distraction out of nothing and taking this way out of context and blowing it out of porportion. Look at the shiney things over here....ewwwww pretty shiney things....

Could he have said that better sure, but come on.

The screaming headlines should be why Romney won't release his tax statements. Hiding something there Mitt??
Yes... just a distraction from what's really important; Mitt's tax returns, Mitt's Swiss bank accounts and Bain.

Quote:
I smell a rat.


I smell a fish.
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 07-19-2012, 11:23 PM   #561
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,272
Local Time: 12:29 PM
Hey, the right felt like they HAD to get proof of Obama's birth certificate, so now it's our turn *Shrugs*.

Besides, I would think one would want to know about his taxes. I mean, after all, there are those out there who are yelling at us lower-class people who are under or unemployed because we're "refusing" to pay our fair share in taxes, if we pay at all ('cause naturally we're opting out just for the hell of it). So if Romney's hiding money in tax havens to avoid paying what he's supposed to pay, I expect those same people criticizing us will be just as upset with him for tax dodging, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb8844 View Post
I completely agree that those types of attacks lower the level of political dialogue in the country; nearly every time I hear a conservative bring up the birth certificate, his religion, etc. I call them down on it.

But the criticisms I was talking about were completely different. I criticized

which was responded to with



My point was that liberals often seem to think that because Bush wasn't criticized as much as he should've been on the above things, Obama can't be, either.
Apologies, then (and I'm glad you're in agreement on the type of "criticism" that doesn't help).

But that's not exactly what liberals are saying. What they're saying is, Obama's doing a lot of the same things Bush did, and if someone wants to criticize Obama for that stuff, fine, but the same criticism should've been leveled at Bush as well. And to stay quiet when Bush did all this stuff only to suddenly get all vocal when Obama does it, well, either we wonder what took people so long or we have to think there might be other reasons for the criticism, reasons that have nothing to do with those actual issues at hand.
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline  
Old 07-20-2012, 01:05 AM   #562
Paper Gods
Forum Administrator
 
KhanadaRhodes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: a vampire in the limousine
Posts: 60,609
Local Time: 12:29 PM
all i know is for most of bush's presidency if anyone dared to criticise him for the slightest thing, we got attacked for being unamerican. yet if the right does the same to obama...what? i don't hear the left saying that, and i guess now that there is a democrat in power it's suddenly not unamerican to criticise the president? so much for that united front many loved to go on about during that rah-rah wrap yourself in the american flag period.

it didn't seem like anyone from the right wanted to admit maybe bush wasn't amazing and perfect until aboooout, umm...2008? right about when he entered lame duck territory and the economy turned to shit. though even now the latter's still being placed solely on obama's shoulders when it sure as hell wasn't his fault the economy stunk when he became president. (and before anyone attacks me for that comment, no i'm not talking about how the economy is now, i'm talking in january 2009 only.)
__________________
KhanadaRhodes is offline  
Old 07-20-2012, 01:46 AM   #563
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,272
Local Time: 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KhanadaRhodes View Post
all i know is for most of bush's presidency if anyone dared to criticise him for the slightest thing, we got attacked for being unamerican. yet if the right does the same to obama...what? i don't hear the left saying that, and i guess now that there is a democrat in power it's suddenly not unamerican to criticise the president? so much for that united front many loved to go on about during that rah-rah wrap yourself in the american flag period.
Yeah, every last word of this. "Love it or leave it", remember, everyone?
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline  
Old 07-20-2012, 02:24 AM   #564
Paper Gods
Forum Administrator
 
KhanadaRhodes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: a vampire in the limousine
Posts: 60,609
Local Time: 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel View Post
Yeah, every last word of this. "Love it or leave it", remember, everyone?
exactly. we were told if we hated it, we should move to france. the left (well aside from maybe some fringe lefties but i'm talking about the masses here, on both sides) has said nothing of the sort since obama's presidency. the closest i can think of is when people have made threats like "if obamacare becomes legal i'll move to..." and then we wondered in jest if they really would, knowing they were full of shit.
__________________
KhanadaRhodes is offline  
Old 07-20-2012, 03:31 PM   #565
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 10:29 AM
Obama with a known terrorist.

__________________
deep is offline  
Old 07-20-2012, 04:13 PM   #566
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,501
Local Time: 01:29 PM
HRC won't allow anyone to talk bad about her beautiful Huma that way.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 07-20-2012, 04:21 PM   #567
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KhanadaRhodes View Post
exactly. we were told if we hated it, we should move to france. the left (well aside from maybe some fringe lefties but i'm talking about the masses here, on both sides) has said nothing of the sort since obama's presidency. the closest i can think of is when people have made threats like "if obamacare becomes legal i'll move to..." and then we wondered in jest if they really would, knowing they were full of shit.
The low point of that era seemed to me to be the Dixie Chicks thing. That whole episode was pretty disturbing, the way a relatively small number of people in the media and political circles could whip up a quasi-fascist witchhunt against what was seen as dissent.
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 07-20-2012, 04:23 PM   #568
Blue Crack Distributor
 
corianderstem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 63,731
Local Time: 10:29 AM
Absolutely. What they said wasn't even that big a deal. Ashamed to be from the same state as Bush. (Not sure what else Maines said later to add fuel to the fire, but that's what started it all off.)

Ted Nugent says threatening shit about Obama .... and he gets trotted out as some bullshit prime example of "real Americans" or whatever on Fox News.
__________________
corianderstem is offline  
Old 07-20-2012, 05:14 PM   #569
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
U2DMfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: It's Inside A Black Hole
Posts: 6,637
Local Time: 12:29 PM
I saw that documentary about it. 'Shut Up And Sing'? I think it was called.
It's fucking stupid how something so trivial basically ruined their career.

1 album over the last ten years.

And it wasn't like they were a shitty band like so many other modern country acts.
They were pretty damn good.
__________________
U2DMfan is offline  
Old 07-20-2012, 05:52 PM   #570
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,501
Local Time: 01:29 PM
i saw the Chicks in DC not long after the controversy. great concert. they nearly sold out the Verizon Center. when they played "Not Ready To Make Nice" the crowd went bonkers and held up WE LOVE YOU signs. and it was awesome -- they're really good musicians. it's too bad Natalie is a little person and they force her to stand on what are essentially stilts and as a result she can't move around much.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com