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Old 04-20-2012, 12:28 AM   #31
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President Obama, in my opinion, has not
been a very good leader.
I agree with you 100%, despite the poisonous atmosphere in Washington.

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Only if by "handout" you mean letting people keep the money they've earned.

(and it's Reagan.)
A flat tax disproportionately affects the poor. If I make 500,000 $ a year after taxes, my household spending choices will never come down to meds for my uninsured children or a semi-decent dinner on the table 7 nights a week. Even if the government takes 75 % of my 500 K earnings, I have the basic necessities while many of my countrymen do not.

You see the situation as "letting [well off, in this context] people keep the money they've earned". I see it as the fact that we no longer live in the Gilded Age and should not have to rely on huge, sweeping acts of charity from the ultra-rich to help out the poor or infirm.
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Old 04-20-2012, 01:43 AM   #32
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So, all the conservatives bitching about Obama's lack of leadership and his inabillity to get anything done he promised-first off, whoa, a president went back on some of their campaign ideas?!?! Call the presses, we've got a real breaking news story here!

Second, and more seriously...are any of those conservatives aware that they are part of the reason WHY Obama can't get shit done? The minute he supports an idea that a Republican originally supported (see Romneycare, which turned into Obamacare), the Republicans stopped supporting it. They fillibuster like crazy. They drum up insane scare tactics-death panels! Socialist/communist overthrow! No more guns!-that for some reason work on people in this country and make them turn against ideas that are quite good and that don't have squat to do with the horrorland the Republicans have come up with. They help many bills die before they even reach Obama's desk. And so on. Yes, Obama shoulders some of the blame. He needs to get tougher. He needs to find a better strategy to outline why his ideas will be good for us. He needs to rally the Democrats (and independents) to help gain support for his ideas.

But for the Republicans to sit there and complain about a situation they've had a big hand in creating within the last four years is hilarious.

Also, Mrs Garrison, excellent rant about Afghanistan, you get no argument from me on that one. Particularly the bit about spending so much money to make their country stronger and get those people better jobs and better living conditions and such when we can't even seem to do that here in our own country.

But I think Diemen raises a good point, too. The "you break it, you bought it" strategy makes sense-if we're willing to go into other countries, patronize their citizens, disregard any way of life they seem perfectly happy with to try and enforce ours onto them, and destroy their nation and kill their people in the process...yeah, we should probably find some way to clean up that massive mess.

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The tip off should have been Barack Obama's "gaffe" (Michael Kinsley's definition of a gaffe made by a politician is when he tells us how he truly thinks by accident) back in 2008 when he derisively described people who live in small-towns as bitter people who "cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them."
...yeah, I've lived in those rural areas. I remember people making a big stinking outrage over that quote.

And then I remember many of those very same people turning around and proving that quote to be true. Look at how gun sales have risen since Obama became president, because of some bizarre fear that he'll take away the guns these people supposedly don't cling to. Look at how obsessive people about what religion Obama REALLY is.

There is some very strong truth to that quote. Believe me.

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Let's protect women from the GOP
Yes, please, can we?
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Old 04-20-2012, 12:28 PM   #33
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Mitt "I'm against what I just said" Romney is the last man who should be making the case that Obama lies too much, but I'd love to see him try.
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Old 04-20-2012, 02:12 PM   #34
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In summary, people should not expect anything from the government, nor from anyone, including family, parents, spouses or children. Independence is very valuable throughout life, which is a misconception that the majority of people have trouble accepting.


you're right.

build your own damn roads, schools, hospitals, fire departments, police departments, pay for your medicines at cost, pay the actual price of an MRI or colonoscopy.

if you can't afford it, fuck off. is that right?
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Old 04-20-2012, 02:53 PM   #35
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[QUOTEThe tip off should have been Barack Obama's "gaffe" (Michael Kinsley's definition of a gaffe made by a politician is when he tells us how he truly thinks by accident) back in 2008 when he derisively described people who live in small-towns as bitter people who "cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them." ][/QUOTE]

Said during the primaries. Kind of theorizing why people might be voting for, say, Hillary instead of him if I recall correctly.

And if I recall correctly, a lot of those states that voted for Hillary in the primaries voted for Obama in the general.

Not that I am bitter.
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Old 04-20-2012, 07:06 PM   #36
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you're right.

build your own damn roads, schools, hospitals, fire departments, police departments, pay for your medicines at cost, pay the actual price of an MRI or colonoscopy.

if you can't afford it, fuck off. is that right?
Who's gonna hand you the cash to you as a freebie for any of those things?

The government?

Or yourself?
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Old 04-20-2012, 08:32 PM   #37
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You're gonna buy a highway and a police department?
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Old 04-21-2012, 02:53 AM   #38
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You're gonna buy a highway and a police department?
and how would it work? you build yourself a highway that only you can use. now what? i sure hope it's in a convenient spot for you, since it'd have to go in a place where there wasn't already an existing road another private citizen put their own highway on. let's say you luck out and it just so happens to get you to and from work. what about any other places you need to go? do you trade with other people? if i use your road, you can use mine? wait, that's starting to sound an awful lot like...the system we already have in place now.

if anyone out there wants to completely pay their own way for everything and not rely on a government for anything, fine. move to a private island and start your own country. but to expect everyone to go back to how things were back when this country was in its infancy just can't happen. it's impossible. and it's not that some people can do it and some can't, it's got to be all or nothing: you either have a welfare state and federal departments and budgets paying for things or you don't, and on the other hand you can't go off the grid with the handouts but say it's cool for others not to do the same.
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:13 AM   #39
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I went to the 100th birthday game at Fenway Park yesterday. Obama recorded a video birthday message for the videoboard and was roundly, severely booed. Far worse than the usual standard booing of AFraud that took place. And Bill Buckner got a standing ovation. Obama didn't even give up five home runs like someone else did.

Very small sample size obviously, compared to the population of MA. But I was still surprised, and that might be a bad omen. He might really be in trouble. Don't think Romney could beat him in MA but you never know. Stranger things have happened. MA is also doing better economically than most of the country, and still such anti-Obama sentiment.
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:50 AM   #40
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Good news!! Romania, Oman, and The Republic of Congo can all buy Western debt when China closes their pocketbook.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17737572
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:08 PM   #41
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I went to the 100th birthday game at Fenway Park yesterday. Obama recorded a video birthday message for the videoboard and was roundly, severely booed. Far worse than the usual standard booing of AFraud that took place. And Bill Buckner got a standing ovation. Obama didn't even give up five home runs like someone else did.

Very small sample size obviously, compared to the population of MA. But I was still surprised, and that might be a bad omen. He might really be in trouble. Don't think Romney could beat him in MA but you never know. Stranger things have happened. MA is also doing better economically than most of the country, and still such anti-Obama sentiment.
Here is the video, you can hear the BOOS along with someone saying "go back to Kenya...go eat a dog...LIAR!"

Obama Booed at Fenway Park - YouTube

Obviously rude and not my personaly style, but it does paint a possibly bleak picture for Mr. Obama's re-election.
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:12 PM   #42
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It sounds like the guy who took the video probably said that. You can find people like that any day of the week at Fenway (drunk, stupid, rude, or any combo of those). But the overall general booing/negative reaction was pretty overwhelming.
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:34 PM   #43
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Mitt "I'm against what I just said" Romney is the last man who should be making the case that Obama lies too much, but I'd love to see him try.
All Mitt Romney really needs to do is focus on the failed economic policies of President Obama, and if people are voting that way, he will be fine. Housing prices are at their lowest since 2002, gas prices have more than doubled since Mr. Obama took office...over $4 per gallon in several states in April (!), Unemployment numbers are astounding and have been since he took office, We have the $5 TRILLION deficit, our national credit rating was recently downgraded, and the health care mandate is considered "unconstitutional" by many.

If he goes on about Obama's failed leadership regarding the war on terror, well there's that too. Currently 2/3 of the infamous "axis of evil" are closer than ever to acquiring nuclear weapons, if they don't have them already. As commander in chief of the armed forces, he owns the successes (killing Bin Laden, ending the Iraq war) as well as the failures (troops urinating on dead Afghans, Major Hasan's killing spree at Ft Hood, SSG Bales killing spree in Afghanistan earlier this year, etc.).

In Mr. Obama's own words:

He's right - YouTube

I like President Obama on social issues, repealing DADT for instance, but this is a case for re-election not a popularity contest. Im sure he s good and decent man, and he's tried to work hard and get things done (well, when he's not golfing or vacationing in AF1). It is true that he came in at a bad time, but the truth is 3 years later he "owns" this economy and this war. If i could honestly say this country was better off today than it was 4 years ago then i might vote for him. If i thought we were possibly heading in the right direction...then yeah. But for now ill take him at his previous word, clearly its time to CHANGE course and HOPE the next administration has better luck at fixing this mess.
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:37 PM   #44
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It sounds like the guy who took the video probably said that. You can find people like that any day of the week at Fenway (drunk, stupid, rude, or any combo of those). But the overall general booing/negative reaction was pretty overwhelming.
Honestly i dont like seeing anyone get Booed, from sports figures to performers to public figures, though im not exactly innocent if im at a game and our arch rival takes the field or something like that.
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:30 PM   #45
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I saw Bush booed at a Rangers game of all places, I don't think it really means much or is much of an indicator.
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