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Old 05-20-2012, 12:36 AM   #331
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Actually the Obama Administration argued before the supreme Court that Obamacare is constitutional under the Commerce Clause. Gay Rights advocates argue for marriage equality under the 14th Amendment and conservatives (and unevolved Democrats) argue against both using the 10th amendment.
I was talking more in a "your average public" sense overall.

I've no doubt some people use the 14th and 10th amendments for their cases in their conversations, but I rarely ever hear them used in the debates I'm a part of. Especially with the 10th amendment ones. In those instances I always seem to hear arguments instead that say gay rights are "against God's will" or that Obamacare will lead to death panels or something of that sort.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:46 AM   #332
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Roger’s Rules � Obama by the numbers



No doubt Bush's fault.

(and the federal debt actually just passed 100% of GDP so the chart has a misprint)
Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but all of those things have been gradually happening for years. Bush made it worse and possibly sped up the process, but I'm willing to say that we've had these issues for decades. The changes have just been so gradual and slow that people keep attributing them to fluctuations and good years/bad years until finally we realized what was going on.

Put it this way. I adopt a dog, and the past few owners have not taken very good care of it. The dog is sick, and needs help, but it is beyond my ability to treat. I do the best I can, but the dog gets worse and hits its record low under my care. Is that my fault?

Now Obama's done a lot of stupid things, and he's been just as detrimental to this country as he's been helpful, but anyone who thinks that if someone else had been voted in this (unemployment rate, housing crash, etc) wouldn't be happening is just plain blind.
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Old 05-20-2012, 11:33 AM   #333
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The tenth amendment pisses me off, because it implies that state governments are somehow inherently better than the federal government at everything. There are absolutely things that states should handle and the federal government should lay off, but civil rights issues are not one of them.
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Old 05-20-2012, 11:43 AM   #334
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The tenth amendment pisses me off, because it implies that state governments are somehow inherently better than the federal government at everything. There are absolutely things that states should handle and the federal government should lay off, but civil rights issues are not one of them.
But the Constitution is utterly infallible!
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:30 PM   #335
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warning : Penn says a couple of f - words

this video, and attitude is why I think a lot of young people will vote Libertarian


Penn's Obama Rant - YouTube


that Romney- pac should run this every place that will let them.
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:31 PM   #336
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Did Teller say anything?
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Old 05-21-2012, 04:20 PM   #337
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that Romney- pac should run this every place that will let them.
Why? Romney isn't for legalization of drugs. It would bite him in the ass.
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Old 05-21-2012, 04:34 PM   #338
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Penn throws out some "interesting" questions, that if independents and undecideds considered them, would lead them to be less likely to vote for Obama
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Old 05-21-2012, 04:54 PM   #339
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Penn throws out some "interesting" questions, that if independents and undecideds considered them, would lead them to be less likely to vote for Obama
He does, but those questions don't exactly play into Romney's hands either.

You mentioned the libertarian vote, and I think you're right. I think there are a lot of young people who are very attracted to the libertarian line of thinking, but how that translates is hard to tell. Will they actually vote libertarian, stay home, or vote for the one they find to be the lesser of the two evils? Hard to tell
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:17 PM   #340
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this is all predicated upon us having a fairly close election in Nov.

that comes down to who takes the time to show up and vote.

Obama had a fairly broad coalition in 2008, if he loses 2-3 % of those 2008 voters to the Libertarians, a few more to apathy he will have a problem.

As for the independents, I can say that Obama appealed more to them in 2008 than Bush/ Cheney / Alberto Gonzales / WMD lies
all that worked against the GOP in favor of Obama

Romney is seen as a goody two shoes, not likely that got away with any felonies like Obama ( did a little blow )
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:33 PM   #341
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Most young people who are into Libertarian ideas are probably not voting.
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:44 PM   #342
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actually they are the ones that are voting
have you seen Ron Paul supporters, they show up at cauci and polls in large numbers

it is the 2008 Democratic liberal youth voters that did not bother to register or vote in 2010 that gave the big win to the Tea Party, and looking at what some in here have posted, they will not be reliable in November.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:59 PM   #343
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Now Obama's done a lot of stupid things, and he's been just as detrimental to this country as he's been helpful, but anyone who thinks that if someone else had been voted in this (unemployment rate, housing crash, etc) wouldn't be happening is just plain blind.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:10 PM   #344
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Most young people who are into Libertarian Obama's ideas are probably not voting able to find work in Obama's economy.
Fixed
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:19 PM   #345
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Fixed
And most people into Romney's ideas are?
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