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Old 04-28-2012, 02:11 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
you see?
And if they ignored the problem and defaulted causing their economy to crumble... what would that look like? How would that affect the poor, aged, vulnerable and those truly dependent on government programs?

All the more reason we should act NOW rather than wait until forced to make drastic measures. Unfortunately we're stuck with this for another 8 months:

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Old 04-28-2012, 02:20 PM   #197
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Pave your own damn roads then, Indy, an print your own money and test your own food.
Believe it or not, pointing out the economic fact that government doesn't create wealth, it merely redistributes dollars from the private economy through taxes or by borrowing from existing capital, does not mean one doesn't recognize the important role that government plays in regulating, refereeing and providing infrastructure to assist commerence.

But erect straw men if you need.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:08 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by INDY500

And if they ignored the problem and defaulted causing their economy to crumble... what would that look like? How would that affect the poor, aged, vulnerable and those truly dependent on government programs?

All the more reason we should act NOW rather than wait until forced to make drastic measures. Unfortunately we're stuck with this for another 8 months:


I'm glad you now agree that the stimulus was absolutely the right thing to do and that you were dead wrong about austerity and putting deficit reduction first.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:12 PM   #199
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But erect straw men if you need.


This from someone who thinks FDA research librarians making $62k a year are the cause of our national debt?
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Old 04-28-2012, 04:25 PM   #200
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I'm glad you now agree that the stimulus was absolutely the right thing to do and that you were dead wrong about austerity and putting deficit reduction first.
Ahhhhhh, no.

I'll compare Reagan's stimulus-free recovery against Obama's recovery any day of the week.



It's still about the debt.
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Old 04-28-2012, 04:45 PM   #201
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Yes because the two periods are totally comparable.

If you'd like to be more like Spain and the UK go ahead and vote for Romney.
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Old 04-28-2012, 07:57 PM   #202
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Economic Growth Slows to 2.2% in First Quarter of 2012

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Economic Growth Slows to 2.2% in First Quarter of 2012

The U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis reported today that the U.S. economy grew at a compounded annual rate of 2.2% in the 1st quarter of 2012, down from 3% in Q4 2011.

Last month, The Washington Dispatch began tracking the progress of the current recovery against the 1980s recovery.

Since the second quarter of 2009 (the last quarter of GDP contraction), real GDP growth has averaged 2.4% over the last eleven quarters. By comparison, in the eleven quarters following the third quarter of 1982 (the last quarter of GDP contraction resulting from the early 1980s recession), real GDP growth averaged 5.5%, or more than double the current average:


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Stalling industrial production, falling demand, rising inventory excesses, and declining labor force participation have all contributed to lackluster growth and continue to expose the U.S. economy to the risk of a "double-dip" recession, a fate the United Kingdom recently succumbed to.
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:01 PM   #203
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Chart Of The Day: Change In Q1 American Debt And GDP | ZeroHedge

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Chart Of The Day: Change In Q1 American Debt And GDP
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 04/27/2012 09:15 -0400

Gross Domestic Product


Presented without much commentary, because little is necessary: the only ratio that matters for the US economy, the change in US public debt ($359.1 billion) and US GDP ($142.4) in the first quarter, hit 2.52x and rising.
It takes $2.52 in new debt to "buy" $1 of economic "growth"


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Source: Debt to the Penny, Commerce Dept
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:56 PM   #204
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If you'd like to be more like Spain and the UK go ahead and vote for Romney.
How does that even make sense?
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:59 PM   #205
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I'm amused by the logic that says "hey, debt has gotten us into so much trouble, that we can't get out of it without having some hard times. So let's just ignore it. It'll go away."
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:19 PM   #206
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I'm amused by the logic that says "hey, debt has gotten us into so much trouble, that we can't get out of it without having some hard times. So let's just ignore it. It'll go away."
The logic is more an acknowledgment that cycles do exist, and that markets do irrationally (yes, markets can be irrational) pull away from their full structural capacity, which can cause a recessionary spiral without government support. And removing government support right now would make that spiral worse, and cause a giant revenue issue that would likely cause a worse long-term deficit-to-GDP ratio issue. The government has made incredibly irrational policy decisions in times of normal-to-good economic activity, which liberals and conservatives of all stripes stand to be blamed for. These decisions are probably a fairly large part of the debt problem we have now, both directly and indirectly (by promoting overheating that may have deepened the recession), especially coupled with lax regulation. But that still doesn't excuse the fact that reduction of government spending in the face of a weak recovery would be problematic. A year from now may be another story. And I also don't think that I would introduce any more stimulus at this point, or even monetary measures (namely a third round of quantitative easing). But a fiscal tightening? Probably not the best idea.
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:20 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by INDY500

How does that even make sense?
Because Spain (and the rest of Europe) have acted in a far more fiscally conservative manner towards the recession (they are actually in a recession, unlike the US) than the United States has.
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:58 PM   #208
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How does that even make sense?
Because Romney believes in austerity.

Except for the rich. And the military.
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:11 AM   #209
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How high should the top tax bracket be?
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:27 AM   #210
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It's still about the debt.



no. it's about jobs.
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