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Old 04-26-2012, 10:33 PM   #151
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i'd love a simplification of the tax code especially when it comes to deductions that only the wealthy can capitalize on.

we agree on the retirement age.
So far so good.
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most things related to social services are bare boned at this point, and couldn't be pared down without harming the most vulnerable -- the poor, children, women, the disabled, and the elderly. and it's not like they get a whole lot of money anyway.
Oh, oh.
The claim is always that nothing can be cut even as spending is going up. Food stamps, Medicaid, Disability and Unemployment comp have all EXPLODED in the past few years and seriously?, nothing can be cut? The same claim was made about Welfare Reform in the 90's, that children would be sold into slavery, families would turn to cannibalism and all that. But funny thing, I don't remember that at all. In fact, aren't we now told that the Clinton presidency was a golden time in American history? So let's go back to Clinton era domestic spending?

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why do you hate public sector jobs? are they not jobs? are they not ways to keep people employed so they can buy shit at Wal-Mart?
Wal-Mart pays their employees from their profits, the government pays it's employees from taxes.
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:15 PM   #152
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Wal-Mart pays their employees from their profits, the government pays it's employees from taxes.
I guess we need more for-profit highways?
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Old 04-27-2012, 01:40 AM   #153
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Pave your own damn roads then, Indy, an print your own money and test your own food.
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Old 04-27-2012, 10:50 AM   #154
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Wal-Mart pays their employees from their profits, the government pays it's employees from taxes.


why don't you come to DC and visit our apartment. you can then repo all our fancy furniture these two sodomites have purchased with YOUR TAXES! it's like WE'RE STEALING FROM YOU! BECAUSE A GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE WITH AN ADVANCED DEGREE AND A STERLING WORK ETHIC IS DOING WORK THAT HELPS THE GOVERNMENT FUNCTION AND PROTECTS YOU FROM BEING BLOWN UP BY TERRORISTS AND YOU'RE HAVING TO GODDAMN PAY FOR IT ALL BY YOURSELF WITH YOUR TAXES!!!

(my entirely private sector job is better paid, though )
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:35 PM   #155
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Do you think that, given the state of our economy in 2008/9, you could realistically expect a president to completely turn everything around? Particularly when that president has to deal with an opposition party that has all but stated (but then, some members have even plainly stated) that their #1 goal is to defeat the president and oppose anything that would look like a victory for him?

Is it possible that, just like these supposed Obama supporters who you deride as having completely bought into the hype of hope and change, that you are holding Obama to higher standards than reality could ever hope to achieve?
Diemen, im not going to deride anyone. Everyone has the choice to vote for whom they want to and i support that. I can and will be happy to live with the end result...whatever that is.

I think it would be much more realistic to have *completely* turned everything around if Mr. Obama wasn't throwing away money to wall street and keeping people addicted to social programs and govt handouts, instead of pursuing class warfare and keeping the job producers overseas. He knows who his base is, and he's pandered to them quite well. They know that at least if he's in office they are going to get those "Obama bucks".

And besides, he said he was going to turn this around. He said we would see change within a year, and if he didnt get it done in 3 years then it would be a one term proposition. Its what he ran on....so you doubt him?

Maybe i would take him more seriously if he weren't constantly golfing or appearing on late night talk shows, or partying with college students on the govt dime. Meanwhile real people are hurting.....and even those of us that aren't....our agency is so broke we can't even buy paper for our copy machines and the weeds outside of our building are only getting cut once a quarter instead of once a week. How's that for a prize military installation?
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:42 PM   #156
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Diemen, im not going to deride anyone. Everyone has the choice to vote for whom they want to and i support that. I can and will be happy to live with the end result...whatever that is.

I think it would be much more realistic to have *completely* turned everything around if Mr. Obama wasn't throwing away money to wall street and keeping people addicted to social programs and govt handouts, instead of pursuing class warfare and keeping the job producers overseas. He knows who his base is, and he's pandered to them quite well. They know that at least if he's in office they are going to get those "Obama bucks".

And besides, he said he was going to turn this around. He said we would see change within a year, and if he didnt get it done in 3 years then it would be a one term proposition. Its what he ran on....so you doubt him?

Maybe i would take him more seriously if he weren't constantly golfing or appearing on late night talk shows, or partying with college students on the govt dime. Meanwhile real people are hurting.....and even those of us that aren't....our agency is so broke we can't even buy paper for our copy machines and the weeds outside of our building are only getting cut once a quarter instead of once a week. How's that for a prize military installation?


And maybe some of us would take you more seriously if you stopped using the same old song and dance of "keeping people addicted to govt handouts", "Obama Bucks", and "class warfare" and actually engaged us like an adult.
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:43 PM   #157
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barry obama.

i suppose i have to vote for him again, because he's a better option than dog shit... and being a nerd or not is not a reason to vote or not vote for somebody... but, yea. this "cool guy obama" thing is such an act. he's an uber geek.

i've thought this for a while... his attempt at slow jamming the news only confirmed it.
I guess it just depends on your definition of "nerd"

I went to school with guys like him, ive served with guys like him, they were some of the funnest people to be around. So i wouldn't call him a nerd. He's a very gifted speaker and a very charismatic person....personally id love to meet the guy and have a beer or discuss things other than politics (once he's out of office).

As far as dogshit goes, we obviously are going to disagree on that, since this administration has taken over we have class warfare and racial division much more prominent on the national scene than anytime i can remember in my life. That's not the hope and change i was hoping for.
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:49 PM   #158
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Diemen, im not going to deride anyone. Everyone has the choice to vote for whom they want to and i support that. I can and will be happy to live with the end result...whatever that is.

I think it would be much more realistic to have *completely* turned everything around if Mr. Obama wasn't throwing away money to wall street and keeping people addicted to social programs and govt handouts, instead of pursuing class warfare and keeping the job producers overseas. He knows who his base is, and he's pandered to them quite well. They know that at least if he's in office they are going to get those "Obama bucks".
You are giving far too much weight to these Obama bucks people.

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And besides, he said he was going to turn this around. He said we would see change within a year, and if he didnt get it done in 3 years then it would be a one term proposition. Its what he ran on....so you doubt him?
Here's some of the change I've seen that I appreciate: the worst recession in 80 years was halted, and we were able to recoup pretty much all of the money given to the banks. The auto industry, which many Republicans (including the presumptive presidential nominee) said should be allowed to fail, is now flourishing. Our troops are out of Iraq. America has been a very vocal supporter of the Arab Spring, but hasn't tried to insert itself into every uprising. Don't Ask, Don't Tell was repealed, allowing gay men and women to serve our country without having to lie about who they are. And it was done so in a responsible way that had buy in from the top brass. More and more states are granting equal rights to homosexuals. Bin Laden is dead.

Now granted, he hasn't turned everything around, but if you took "change" to mean "everything that was wrong will be fixed" - well, that's your problem, not mine. You also didn't address the portion of my question that mentions that he's working with an opposition party that is very vocal about opposing everything he proposes. In some way I'm actually surprised at how much he has been able to accomplish given the atmosphere in Washington.

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Maybe i would take him more seriously if he weren't constantly golfing or appearing on late night talk shows, or partying with college students on the govt dime.
Oh, come on. Do you really believe that Obama isn't working his ass off?
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:51 PM   #159
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As far as dogshit goes, we obviously are going to disagree on that, since this administration has taken over we have class warfare and racial division much more prominent on the national scene than anytime i can remember in my life. That's not the hope and change i was hoping for.
You're blaming the racial division on Obama??
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:51 PM   #160
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No, of course the US would *want* it back, but there's absolutely no reason why Iran *have* to give it back. Illegally flying into Iranian airspace and crashing a machine purpose built for only spying on Iranian soil isn't the same as accidentally kicking a ball into your neighbours yard. Remember also that Iran don't say it crashed, they say they shot it down, and they have every right in the world to do that too.

But yes, the resulting diplomatic mess and decision on what to do about getting it back do go to the President. Perhaps the decision was that it's not actually worth whatever Iran would likely want in return, especially with everything else in regards to Iran at the moment?
I suppose they could keep the drone as a trophy and some sort of moral victory for their regime. Or they could sell it to the Russians, Chinese. Or just have it reverse engineered and use it to spy on and possibly harm Americans.

No of course they don't have to give it back. Just like we don't have to persuade Israel not to attack them either. I forget, what was the good option again?
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:55 PM   #161
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Ronald Reagan, just another socialist engaged in class warfare:

Reagan--No Loopholes For Millionaires - YouTube
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Old 04-27-2012, 01:16 PM   #162
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You are giving far too much weight to these Obama bucks people.
Am I? half of the people in this country aren't even paying income tax, so who are supporting the people addicted to govt handouts? Why aren't these people weened off of welfare, unemployment, etc? Why aren't they drug tested? Oh yeah, because the economy sucks and there are no jobs....and these people will continue to vote democrat...and you and i will continue to finance their lifestyle.


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Here's some of the change I've seen that I appreciate: the worst recession in 80 years was halted, and we were able to recoup pretty much all of the money given to the banks. The auto industry, which many Republicans (including the presumptive presidential nominee) said should be allowed to fail, is now flourishing. Our troops are out of Iraq. America has been a very vocal supporter of the Arab Spring, but hasn't tried to insert itself into every uprising. Don't Ask, Don't Tell was repealed, allowing gay men and women to serve our country without having to lie about who they are. And it was done so in a responsible way that had buy in from the top brass. More and more states are granting equal rights to homosexuals. Bin Laden is dead.
The recession is NOT over, who told you that it was? 8.2% of the workforce are still unemployed, many recent college grads are either going back to school and/or moving back in with their parents, or both. Im glad the troops are out of Iraq, and that DADT was repealed. Yet at the same time we have troops going on killing sprees, selling secrets to wiki leaks, and urinating on dead enemy troops or civilians. The war is really far from over in our hearts and minds. And the Marines are kicking troops out for speaking their mind about the president - which clearly was a stupid thing to do - but it shows what some might think of him. He clearly was AGAINST the surge in Iraq in 2006, which was probably the only reason we were able to overcome the insurgency.

Bin Laden dead, again i have been vocal on here about my pleasure on this issue. And then we have some saying that it wasn't even Obama's Call:

What 'Gutsy Call'?: CIA Memo Reveals Admiral Controlled bin Laden Mission

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Today, Time magazine got hold of a memo written by then-CIA head Leon Panetta after he received orders from Barack Obama’s team to greenlight the bin Laden mission. Here’s the text, which summarized the situation:

Received phone call from Tom Donilon who stated that the President made a decision with regard to AC1 [Abbottabad Compound 1]. The decision is to proceed with the assault.

The timing, operational decision making and control are in Admiral McRaven’s hands. The approval is provided on the risk profile presented to the President. Any additional risks are to be brought back to the President for his consideration. The direction is to go in and get bin Laden and if he is not there, to get out. Those instructions were conveyed to Admiral McRaven at approximately 10:45 am.

This, of course, was the famed “gutsy call.” Here’s what Tom Hanks narrated in Obama’s campaign film, “The Road We’ve Traveled”:

HANKS: Intelligence reports locating Osama Bin Laden were promising, but inconclusive, and there was internal debate as to what the President should do.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: We sat down in the Situation Room, the entire national security apparatus was in that room, and the President turns to every principal in the room, every secretary, “What do you recommend I do?” And they say, “Well, forty-nine percent chance he’s there, fifty-one … it’s a close call, Mr. President.” As he walked out the room, it dawned on me, he’s all alone. This is his decision. If he was wrong, his Presidency was done. Over.

Only the memo doesn’t show a gutsy call. It doesn’t show a president willing to take the blame for a mission gone wrong. It shows a CYA maneuver by the White House.

The memo puts all control in the hands of Admiral McRaven – the “timing, operational decision making and control” are all up to McRaven. So the notion that Obama and his team were walking through every stage of the operation is incorrect. The hero here was McRaven, not Obama. And had the mission gone wrong, McRaven surely would have been thrown under the bus.

The memo is crystal clear on that point. It says that the decision has been made based solely on the “risk profile presented to the President.” If any other risks – no matter how minute – arose, they were “to be brought back to the President for his consideration.” This is ludicrous. It is wiggle room. It was Obama’s way of carving out space for himself in case the mission went bad. If it did, he’d say that there were additional risks of which he hadn’t been informed; he’d been kept in the dark by his military leaders.

Finally, the memo is unclear on just what the mission is. Was it to capture Bin Laden or to kill him? The White House itself was unable to decide what the mission was in the hours after the Bin Laden kill, and actually switched its language. The memo shows why: McRaven was instructed to “get” Bin Laden, whatever that meant.

President Obama made the right call to give the green light to the mission. But he did it in a way that he could shift the blame if things went wrong. Typical Obama. And typical of him to claim full credit for it, when he didn’t do anything but give a vague nod, while putting his top military officials at risk of taking the hit in case of a bad turn.
i suppose this will be dismissed as "more right wing propaganda" though. Whatever, Ive given my to Obama for killing Bin Laden and will continue to do so. One of the 2 or 3 things he's actually gotten right that im aware of.

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Now granted, he hasn't turned everything around, but if you took "change" to mean "everything that was wrong will be fixed" - well, that's your problem, not mine. You also didn't address the portion of my question that mentions that he's working with an opposition party that is very vocal about opposing everything he proposes. In some way I'm actually surprised at how much he has been able to accomplish given the atmosphere in Washington.
Its not just my problem, its his own words, and actually its all of our problem because we have to live with his failed promise.

As for what i didnt address, well, again Ive made mention of the 2010 mid terms and i believe we know what that meant to his Presidency. So is it all the GOP's fault? Can't blame Bush again, can we? Maybe if Obama were more like Clinton he could work the the opposition party instead of trying to alienate them and blame everything on them. I don't like the tea party anymore than you do, for what its worth, I've been very vocal about that in other threads. At one point I've even said "fuck them and the horse they rode in on" or something to that effect. Im personally glad that the GOP was wise enought to have a moderate as their presumptive nominee, otherwise if they had one of the wing-nuts i would probably be voting for the cool guy instead and continue on supporting the freeloaders of the world.



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Oh, come on. Do you really believe that Obama isn't working his ass off?
At times yes, at times no. I seem to remember Bush took a lot of heat in here for his trips to Crawford or how many times he played golf...you remember that? Oh wait, i know, BUSH isn't RUNNING
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Old 04-27-2012, 01:16 PM   #163
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Ronald Reagan, just another socialist engaged in class warfare:

Reagan--No Loopholes For Millionaires - YouTube
Isn't Reagan dead? IS he on the Bush ticket again versus Obama?
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Old 04-27-2012, 02:23 PM   #164
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You'd also be taken a little more seriously if:


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Originally Posted by Mrs. Garrison View Post
Am I? half of the people in this country aren't even paying income tax, so who are supporting the people addicted to govt handouts? Why aren't these people weened off of welfare, unemployment, etc? Why aren't they drug tested? Oh yeah, because the economy sucks and there are no jobs....and these people will continue to vote democrat...and you and i will continue to finance their lifestyle.
You wouldn't spit out this drivel.


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The recession is NOT over, who told you that it was?
You knew the definition of 'recession'.

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Isn't Reagan dead? IS he on the Bush ticket again versus Obama?
And if you wouldn't go so far out of your way to miss a point.
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Old 04-27-2012, 02:32 PM   #165
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Oh wait, i know, BUSH isn't RUNNING
Why do you keep saying that Bush isn't running?
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