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Old 04-24-2012, 11:55 PM   #136
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half of the country doesn't even pay income taxes.
that really gets me riled up,
and I know a good portion of them are just kickin' back, suckin on a teat, getting fat, shiting themselves

how I hate those g-damn babies, next time one of those little free-loaders gets on a plane with me I am going to lose it!
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:04 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Mrs. Garrison View Post
I will stop you right here because this is the Obama economy, not anyone other administrations economy.
No, sorry, you HAVE to look at what happened in the past to try and figure out why things are going the way they are now. We need to look at how the Bush administration handled the economy-if it took eight years for us to go from a surplus to being so far in debt, then naturally one should expect that the incoming president would have a long uphill battle to get us out of such a hole and as a result we need to do a compare/contrast scenario. We're in way deeper than I think most people realize, no way in hell would this ever have been solved as quickly as people think it should have been.

We should definitely scrutinize Obama's policies on fixing things, yes, and critique him when we think his ideas aren't going to aid in recovery. But he could be doing every single thing right in terms of economic policy, and yet it'd STILL take a long time for things to be back to normal. They might come back a bit quicker than they would otherwise in that scenario, but it's going to be a while. Sorry to say it, but it's true.

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Whatever happened to HOPE & CHANGE and CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN?

Obama ran on turning things around...he hasn't. This is his economy and his war....his success and his failures. End of story.
Again, you are obsessing over campaign slogans. EVERY single politician is going to have an inspirational campaign slogan. EVERY single politician runs on, "I will change things and make this country better." That's what helps them get elected. Sure, it'd be great if someone had a more realistic slogan, or realistic suggestions, but those don't get people all charged up and don't always lead to more votes.

I was hopeful with those slogans, too, yes, but I also wasn't naive enough to think it'd all be solved by the day after his inaguration or whatever. If someone had unrealistically high expectations upon hearing Obama speak, well, that's their issue to deal with.

You don't think I want to wake up tomorrow morning and see everyone in prosperous jobs and comfortable homes and our debt eliminated? Of course I do. But I also know that, like I said above, we're in so far in debt that no matter what happens, it's going to be a while before things start truly looking up. I know that's not news anyone WANTS to hear-my family's struggled and it's sure as hell not anything I'm happy to hear about, but it's the truth.

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Originally Posted by Mrs. Garrison View Post
First off, we're not talking about FDR. This is Obama general discussion. Obama is running for re-election, with his economic record. Not FDR, or Bush, or anyone else.

SO did Obama lie then when he said this?

FLASHBACK: Obama: My Presidency Will Be 'A One-Term Proposition' If Economy Doesn't Turn In 3 Years - YouTube
I think you missed my point. I was using an example of another president who had to deal with similar situations as Obama (though arguably a lot worse). He managed to fix things eventually, yes, but it took a lot of time and a few screwups along the way. It took a good number of years. There have been many comparisons between the two presidents over the years, so if the comparisons are valid, then it stands to reason that as FDR had problems fixing the economic situation of his day, so too does Obama now.

No, I don't think he lied. I think he was making a truthful observation-even if he is trying to do his best, he's fully aware that the American people will be expecting improvement by the time his re-election comes around, and if they don't see it in their lives, they'll project that onto him and his re-election chances will not be as airtight. And he's right.

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So Obama has 50,000 things on his plate he needs to fix, please tell me why he's found time to play 94 rounds of golf then? Or appear on every late night talk show? Or take several week long vacations in Hawaii? Did he think this was going to be a 4 year vacation? I realize he was a community organizer and an absent senator....what was he expecting though when he came to Washington?
That you make a fair point on and I don't disagree with you. The talk shows...well, apparently that's the new way to try and win people over. And the Republicans have been appearing on shows, too, instead of working on their campaigns and coming up with proper solutions to the problems they would be inheriting should they become president, though, so hey. Seems everyone on Capitol Hill is more interested in getting the hell away from D.C. than staying there and working for any length of time on anything of substance.

The fact does remain, though, that everyone wants Obama to fix this and fix that (when they're not calling him a socialist commie Nazi who's trying to control our lives), and I ask those people then, what do you want him to take care of first? He can't solve all these problems at once, nor can he solve them alone. So what do you want him to do, and what are you willing to do to help him get there?

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What Mr. Obama needs to do, is help create an environment where business will thrive and grow, and not raise taxes on the job creators to the extent where they throw in the towel. Meanwhile half of the country doesn't even pay income taxes. Not create a society where people can collect unemployment insurance for 99 weeks or whatever that figure is, perfectly healthy people depend on stamps and "Obama bucks" because its readily available and they are too lazy to work. The only people he's really really helped is the welfare folks and the wall street execs who got the big bonuses. Everyone else (those of us who pay taxes, that is) gets to pay for him and Michelle to jet set around the world at our expense. Yep, all this for a damn flag.
I really am getting tired of the "too lazy to work" stuff that people keep coming up with. Seriously. I know there are some people who fit that description, but how many times do I have to explain that not everyone is like that? You remember my posts about my family from recent pages, right, how we didn't fit that stereotype of people on welfare you seem to keep repeating constantly? Please stop with that insinuation, because it's really getting beyond insulting.

And as for the "job creators"-if they're job creators, why are jobs being shipped overseas? Why are CEOs getting big bonuses while average employees aren't getting raises or paid more in minimum wage or whatever? Why are "overqualified" or "underqualified" people being rejected for perfectly simple work that it shouldn't be too hard to train anyone to do? I work a part-time job at a small Midwestern chain bookstore, and the higher-ups are so cheap, nobody gets raises there and they're very hesitant to shell out money for anything, including someone to help out my manager so that when she's gone, we have someone else to help us out when we need it, to help train new people and such. The only full-time job is that of my manager. We had 6 people quit within this last month because they found better-paying jobs elsewhere. And those that stay have to take on a second job because of the low pay of the one they're at.

Hell, ask my mom what happened when she worked at KMart and those stores started shutting down. The CEO walked off with a big bonus. My mom, however? Got nothing. And they had to close the store because they were struggling financially...well, apparently they weren't struggling TOO much if that CEO was able to get his millions in bonuses. And so on and so on. Job creators, my ass.

If we can prove a business is actually creating jobs, yes, they should get breaks for that. But if they're not willing to help keep their employees with any of what I mentioned above, they're not job creators and they're not deserving of any breaks. I like how those of us who are underemployed are called lazy for not paying much, if anything, in taxes, but if the "job creators" have to do it, it's "damaging" to them and their business. Really? If I'm expected to pony up money, so are the job creators. If I have to sacrifice, they do, too, so they can shut it and quit their whining.

Obama DOES want a world where people are getting prosperous jobs. Unfortunately, again, any attempts he makes to do so get blocked by idiot Republican politicians who are saying he's plotting an evil government takeover. So how do you respond to that problem? What's your suggestion on how Obama should deal with those people who block, or try to block, any plans of Obama's from going through? I'm so far beyond tired of the Republican line about protecting job creators and alternately bitching because Obama isn't fixing everything yet saying his policies are akin to socialist Nazi whatever BS. You can't have it both ways, guys, get a clue already.

Also, anitram, EXCELLENT post. Interestingly enough, my parents have said the same thing for years.
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:24 AM   #138
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this guy is such a nerd.
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:53 AM   #139
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look where mindless austerity gets you:


Quote:
UK Slides Back Into Recession in First Double Dip Since 1970s
Published: Wednesday, 25 Apr 2012 | 8:23 AM ET Text Size
By: Reuters

Britain's economy slid into its second recession since the financial crisis after official data unexpectedly showed a fall in output in the first three months of 2012, piling pressure on Prime Minister David Cameron's embattled coalition government.

The Office for National Statistics said Britain's gross domestic product fell 0.2 percent in the first quarter of 2012 after contracting by 0.3 percent at the end of 2011, confounding forecasts for 0.1 percent growth.

Most economists had expected Britain's $2.4 trillion economy to eke out modest growth in the early 2012, but these forecasts were upset by the biggest fall in construction output in three years coupled with anaemic service sector growth and a fall in industrial output.

Wednesday's figures will be a deep blow for Britain's Conservative / Liberal Democrat coalition, which has slid in opinion polls since a poorly received annual budget statement in March and risks embarrassment at local elections on May 3.

The government is also under pressure over revelations about its close relationship with media tycoon Rupert Murdoch.

The government desperately needs growth to achieve its overriding goal of eliminating Britain's large budget deficit over the next five years.

Britain's economy contracted by 7.1 percent during its 2008-2009 recession and recovery since has been slow, with headwinds from the euro zone debt crisis, government spending cuts, high inflation and a damaged banking sector.

Wednesday's data showed that output was still 4.3 percent below its peak in the first quarter of 2008, and the economy has only grown by 0.4 percent since the government came to power in the second quarter of 2010.

Output in Britain's service sector - which makes up more than three quarters of GDP - rose by just 0.1 percent in the first quarter after falling 0.1 percent in Q4 2011, kept down by a fall in output in the large business services and finance sector.

Industrial output was 0.4 percent lower, while construction - which accounts for less than 8 percent of GDP - contracted by 3.0 percent, the biggest fall since Q1 2009.

Britain's Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts growth of 0.8 percent this year.

Wednesday's data shows that first quarter output was no higher than a year earlier.

The Bank of England has warned that there is a risk of another contraction in the second quarter of 2012, due to an extra public holiday.

But unlike during the previous two quarters, it does not appear keen to provide further monetary stimulus through quantitative easing asset purchases, due to above-target inflation which looks stickier than before.

The BoE, and a number of private-sector economists, had argued before Wednesday that the underlying health of Britain's economy was stronger than ONS data suggested, due to relatively upbeat private-sector surveys and a fall in unemployment.

The ONS's preliminary estimates of GDP are the first released in the European Union, and are based partly on estimated data.

On average, they are revised by 0.1 percentage points up or down by the time a second revision is published two months later, but bigger moves are not uncommon.

News Headlines

there's no question that the US is in better shape than many of the other developed western nations (Australia and Canada, probably Germany, seem to be better off than the US, though), and that's likely due to measures like the stimulus taken by the Obama administration in 2009 that have resulted in an economy that will grow by a small but real 2% over the next year and the unemployment rate will continue to trickle down. all this despite all efforts by the GOP to keep the unemployment rate high by slashing public sector jobs.

mindless slashing due to deficit panic is bad policy. this isn't to say that entitlements don't need reform and defense spending doesn't need to be cut and stupid wars need to be ended, but we're certainly better off than we were on January 19, 2009.
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:53 PM   #140
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I mean, this can't be good, right?
No, of course the US would *want* it back, but there's absolutely no reason why Iran *have* to give it back. Illegally flying into Iranian airspace and crashing a machine purpose built for only spying on Iranian soil isn't the same as accidentally kicking a ball into your neighbours yard. Remember also that Iran don't say it crashed, they say they shot it down, and they have every right in the world to do that too.

But yes, the resulting diplomatic mess and decision on what to do about getting it back do go to the President. Perhaps the decision was that it's not actually worth whatever Iran would likely want in return, especially with everything else in regards to Iran at the moment?
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:44 PM   #141
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look where mindless austerity gets you:
Just curious, other than defense spending is there any budgetary reduction you don't label "mindless austerity"?

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all this despite all efforts by the GOP to keep the unemployment rate high by slashing public sector jobs.
all this despite all efforts by the Democrats to keep the unemployment rate low by throwing stimulus money at public sector jobs.

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mindless slashing due to deficit panic is bad policy.
Oh, sometimes it's "mindless slashing."

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, but we're certainly better off than we were on January 19, 2009.
Better off in that we're 1191 days closer to the end of this presidency.
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:00 PM   #142
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Better off in that we're 1191 days closer to the end of this presidency.
No faith in Mittens?

To be fair, I don't think that it's fair to imply that "mindless austerity" is the only thing contributed to the double dip recession. The double dip is part of what defines a deleveraging cycle - a long and painful process where growth is weak.
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:27 PM   #143
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Just curious, other than defense spending is there any budgetary reduction you don't label "mindless austerity"?
i'd love a simplification of the tax code especially when it comes to deductions that only the wealthy can capitalize on.

we agree on the retirement age.

most things related to social services are bare boned at this point, and couldn't be pared down without harming the most vulnerable -- the poor, children, women, the disabled, and the elderly. and it's not like they get a whole lot of money anyway.


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all this despite all efforts by the Democrats to keep the unemployment rate low by throwing stimulus money at public sector jobs.

why do you hate public sector jobs? are they not jobs? are they not ways to keep people employed so they can buy shit at Wal-Mart?



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Better off in that we're 1191 days closer to the end of this presidency.

i look forward to either Hillary or Cuomo in '16.
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:46 PM   #144
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I'm ticked because I thought I made a good point with the gas prices. You listed "higher gas prices" under a list of Obama's failed economic policies, and I pointed out that criticism is flawed because all policies that lower gas prices are not necessarily good policy. Case in point, the financial crisis. And using it as a simple metric for evaluating the economy is also flawed, because gas prices will increase if demand increases- i.e, if the economy is actually doing well and expanding. It's even bad from a geopolitical standpoint, as praising the American government for lowering prices encourages policies that prop up "stable" Middle Eastern dictators!
Sorry you feel neglected. I don't have time to "answer" to everyone here. There's me, Indy500 who might share a similair opinion. And then theres everyone else. And im only here because of injury. I usually don't post in here when the weather is nice.



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Your only response was to ignore that and jump to different topics; the housing market and the national debt. If you refuse to engage in any form of actual discussion about your posted views, then I hardly see it as a loss to place me on your ignore list.

INDY, I see your post and will get to it.
Fair enough, as you wish.
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:46 PM   #145
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this guy is such a nerd.
who?
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:55 PM   #146
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No, sorry, you HAVE to look at what happened in the past to try and figure out why things are going the way they are now. We need to look at how the Bush administration handled the economy-
BUSH is not running
BUSH is not running
BUSH is not running

I really dont see why this is so hard?


Quote:
I really am getting tired of the "too lazy to work" stuff that people keep coming up with. Seriously. I know there are some people who fit that description, but how many times do I have to explain that not everyone is like that? You remember my posts about my family from recent pages, right, how we didn't fit that stereotype of people on welfare you seem to keep repeating constantly? Please stop with that insinuation, because it's really getting beyond insulting.
Of course i remember your earlier posts. And I told you then and i will tell you again, im not talking about YOU or YOUR family. I thought we cleared that up. Still, the problem remains, it deserves to be mentioned.

I dont have time to respond to anything else as you have written a very long post. Im just saying that right now to get it out there, please dont be offended.

Take care
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:59 PM   #147
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Durable Goods Demand Plummets in March

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Durable Goods Demand Plummets in March

A new report from the Department of Commerce today showed that demand for durable goods declined drastically in March:


New orders for manufactured durable goods in March decreased $8.8 billion or 4.2 percent to $202.6 billion, the U.S. Census Bureau announced today.





Inventories once again hit a new all-time high in March:


Inventories of manufactured durable goods in March, up twenty-seven consecutive months, increased $1.7 billion or 0.4 percent to $375.1 billion. This was at the highest level since the series was first published on a NAICS basis and followed a 0.3 percent February increase. Transportation equipment, also up twenty-seven consecutive months, had the largest increase, $0.8 billion or 0.7 percent to $118.0 billion. This was also at the highest level since the series was first published . . .

As the Washington Dispatch reported last month, the excess of inventories over orders continues to show that the U.S. economy remains exposed to the risk of a "double-dip" recession:


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Old 04-25-2012, 07:06 PM   #148
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Right Direction or Wrong Track - Rasmussen Reports™

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Wednesday, April 25, 2012

Twenty-nine percent (29%) of Likely U.S. Voters say the country is heading in the right direction, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey taken the week ending Sunday, April 22.

This finding is up two points from last week and back to the level found for the previous three weeks.
29% say we're heading in the right direction, 63% say we're heading on the wrong track.

WoW..very impressive numbers.
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:59 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Mrs. Garrison View Post
BUSH is not running
BUSH is not running
BUSH is not running

I really dont see why this is so hard?
Do you think that, given the state of our economy in 2008/9, you could realistically expect a president to completely turn everything around? Particularly when that president has to deal with an opposition party that has all but stated (but then, some members have even plainly stated) that their #1 goal is to defeat the president and oppose anything that would look like a victory for him?

Is it possible that, just like these supposed Obama supporters who you deride as having completely bought into the hype of hope and change, that you are holding Obama to higher standards than reality could ever hope to achieve?
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:02 PM   #150
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who?
barry obama.

i suppose i have to vote for him again, because he's a better option than dog shit... and being a nerd or not is not a reason to vote or not vote for somebody... but, yea. this "cool guy obama" thing is such an act. he's an uber geek.

i've thought this for a while... his attempt at slow jamming the news only confirmed it.
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