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Old 02-09-2012, 11:16 PM   #826
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this isn't about Catholics being denied birth control. this is about Catholics denying it to others.
I'm against a government take over of health care and a defender of First Amendment rights. I'm against the government mandating anyone's insurance provide "free women's health care."

http://www.u2interference.com/forums...201358-63.html

I think, if nothing else, I'm consistent on these points.

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i don't think evangelicals are against birth control. i DO think evangelical respond to dog whistles such as this. religious freedom! Obama! boogeyman!
Isn't the whole point of the dog whistle analogy that the message is being sent in such a way that only the targeted audience will hear the message? If so, how come these messages directed towards me via "dog whistle" are coming in so clear to you?

Are you drawn to ponds by duck calls too?

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guess the only thing left is to start up the culture wars again.
You're right, I want this election to be about the debt, the economy, entitlement reforms, market-based health care reform and energy. Catholics didn't start this war, Obama did.

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i'm thinking more and more that Obama is setting yet another culture war trap to gin up young voters. people in their 20's and 30's certainly value their birth control, since this is their child bearing years and they'd really rather be in charge of when they do and do not get pregnant. he's also aware that the white evangelical base is getting older, is looking more and more alien to an increasingly diverse America, and making them freak out about birth control (even if it's really "religious freedom") makes them look positively insane and thus unelectable.
Don't quit your day job to become a political analyst.
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:28 PM   #827
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Pope Benedict XVI and other church leaders said it was the moral responsibility of nations to guarantee access to health care for all of their citizens, regardless of social and economic status or their ability to pay.
Well, that's interesting. I wasn't aware of that.

WWJD, indeed.
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:29 PM   #828
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For INDY.

Here's my situation: I'm 21, a PA resident, in college, in thousands of dollars of debt, and barely make enough money working to pay for day-to-day expenses. My tuition is going up again next year because the governor of my state cut our appropriations again to keep natural gas from being taxed (30% this time around). My finances operate totally separately from my parents: I have my own debt and my own bills, I'm not some rich kid tag along who pretends to not have money. So...

Why should I vote for a Republican? What advantages would a Mitt Romney bring to the table over a Barack Obama? Honest question. I'd like you to make a case to me that Romney is better for me than Obama, fiscally. We'll put aside all the asinine social positions of the GOP. Let's just talk money.
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:43 PM   #829
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I'm against a government take over of health care and a defender of First Amendment rights. I'm against the government mandating anyone's insurance provide "free women's health care."

how is denying coverage of one area of health that is widely accepted, widely covered, widely understood to be of enormous social good an exercise of the First Amendment?

as yolland mentioned before, what if my religion forbade interracial marriage? can i deny health coverage to your spouse because she's Korean and my religion says that God makes different races for a reason and put them on different continents because he didn't want confused half-breed children?


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Isn't the whole point of the dog whistle analogy that the message is being sent in such a way that only the targeted audience will hear the message? If so, how come these messages directed towards me via "dog whistle" are coming in so clear to you?
you're right. this isn't a dog whistle, that was inaccurate of me. this is plain old red meat to the Democratic base (young people). whenever you use religion as an excuse to discriminate against women -- how does the Church feel about Viagra? surely Viagra encourages recreational sex as much as the Pill, and surely people of Viagra age likely have partners who aren't exactly in their most fertile years -- you're going to get the Dems all riled up. the Dem ladies in the Senate were all over this.


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You're right, I want this election to be about the debt, the economy, entitlement reforms, market-based health care reform and energy. Catholics didn't start this war, Obama did.
but evangelicals sure do seem hell bent on fighting this war for them. sadly, your candidate who seems most able to talk about such things (Romney) is now behind your purest, nastiest, most intolerant, most anti-freedom candidate (Santorum).

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Don't quit your day job to become a political analyst.
so ... you agree with my analysis, then?
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:46 PM   #830
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Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
For INDY.

Here's my situation: I'm 21, a PA resident, in college, in thousands of dollars of debt, and barely make enough money working to pay for day-to-day expenses. My tuition is going up again next year because the governor of my state cut our appropriations again to keep natural gas from being taxed (30% this time around). My finances operate totally separately from my parents: I have my own debt and my own bills, I'm not some rich kid tag along who pretends to not have money. So...

Why should I vote for a Republican? What advantages would a Mitt Romney bring to the table over a Barack Obama? Honest question. I'd like you to make a case to me that Romney is better for me than Obama, fiscally. We'll put aside all the asinine social positions of the GOP. Let's just talk money.


um ... it gets better?
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:48 PM   #831
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how does the Church feel about Viagra? surely Viagra encourages recreational sex as much as the Pill, and surely people of Viagra age likely have partners who aren't exactly in their most fertile years
That REALLY drives me nuts. Don't want women to take a pill because it might "stop the creation of life" or it might mean we can actually go ahead and have sex for reasons other than pregnancy or some sort of other weird reasoning of that kind.

But men using Viagra? Yeah! Go nuts! Hump everything in sight! That's okay!

So many issues related to birth control always involve the women getting the brunt of the criticism. Women don't get pregnant just standing there, a man is involved somehow, so if we're going to be restrictive with women's health/reproduction issues, maybe we should do the same for men, too, eh?

Given my own family's financial struggles over the years, I too would like to hear an answer to PhilsFan's question.
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:49 PM   #832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
For INDY.

Here's my situation: I'm 21, a PA resident, in college, in thousands of dollars of debt, and barely make enough money working to pay for day-to-day expenses. My tuition is going up again next year because the governor of my state cut our appropriations again to keep natural gas from being taxed (30% this time around). My finances operate totally separately from my parents: I have my own debt and my own bills, I'm not some rich kid tag along who pretends to not have money. So...
Has the idea of finishing your degree in another country ever occurred to you?
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:50 PM   #833
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I'm a journalism major. Even in college, you have to work your way up through the ranks. I can't leave and drop in elsewhere. Too many opportunities would be missed.
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:31 AM   #834
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Birth control most certainly IS health care for women. It is taken for other major health reasons other than preventing conception. It can cost up to $600 dollars a year (maybe even more depending upon reason for use) for uninsured people, which might be chump change to many people. But to poor and struggling people it is NOT. There are also non Catholic people who work for Catholic institutions, maybe they should all be fired.

This was the perfect political issue for this year, and it has worked

AP sources: Obama revamping birth control policy

WASHINGTON—Retreating in the face of a political uproar, President Barack Obama on Friday will announce that religious employers will not have to cover birth control for their employees after all, The Associated Press has learned. The administration instead will demand that insurance companies will be the ones directly responsible for providing free contraception.

Obama's abrupt shift is an attempt to satisfy both sides of a deeply sensitive debate, and most urgently, to end a mounting election-year nightmare for the White House.

Women will still get guaranteed access to birth control without co-pays or premiums no matter where they work, a provision of Obama's health care law that he insisted must remain. But religious universities and hospitals that see contraception as an unconscionable violation of their faith can refuse to cover it, and insurance companies will then have to step in to do so.

Obama will speak about his decision at 12:15 p.m. EST.

Senior administration officials confirmed the details to the AP but insisted they remain anonymous in advance of the president's announcement.
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:59 AM   #835
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It's sad when you have to cave to the uninformed...
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:12 AM   #836
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ugh. why does he do this? he just looks weak to people like me, and the people he's reaching out to already hate him because he's a marxist kenyan stalinist foreigner.

although this seems a bit more of a compromise than a concession, and it just makes everything more complicated:

Quote:
On a conference call with reporters Friday, a senior administration official announced that the White House will move the onus to provide women free contraceptive services to insurance companies if their religiously-affiliated employers object to providing insurance coverage that covers birth control.

"All women will still have access to free preventive care that includes contraceptive services," the official said. "The insurance company will be required to reach out directly and offer her contraceptive coverage free of charge," if the employer objects to providing that coverage in its benefit package.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.co...s-orgs?ref=fpa
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:16 AM   #837
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It's just too bad this couldn't have waited until after the election, as that's the only reason he's caved in. He doesn't want to lose potential voters in what could be a close election (though I have my doubts with the way the whole GOP Primary Circus is going down)

I don't recall Bush ever really backing down from anything, and I wish Obama had a little bit more of that bravado in him.
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Old 02-10-2012, 12:11 PM   #838
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Old 02-10-2012, 12:30 PM   #839
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I guess he's changed his mind about being a one term President
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:01 PM   #840
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I'm a journalism major. Even in college, you have to work your way up through the ranks. I can't leave and drop in elsewhere. Too many opportunities would be missed.


if you want to continue in journalism, you'll probably have to move to a big media market and take an unpaid internship. you'll have to survive either on a second job or parental support in an expensive city like NYC or Chicago or LA, and you'll be working to prove yourself to other people who you hope will either hire you with their company (to do low-level but actually paid stuff) or who will say good things about you when you gain enough experience to apply to low-level but actually paid jobs in far-flung media markets like Tuscaloosa or Boise. and that's if you're lucky. even getting an internship can be tough -- seek out alumni contacts and write them letters and ask them about their careers, and be willing to work for free and to do just about anything. if you stick with print media only, you may never make a lot of money, and it may take you years to pay back your student loans. Memphis makes a very healthy salary, and he's now 35 and still paying back his undergrad loans.

other options to consider are teaching and/or going into law.

one good thing is that, now, thanks to Obama, you can stay on your parent's health insurance until you are 26. this means you'll have a good 4 years to work things such as unpaid internships so you can pursue your dreams and not have to worry about getting hit by a truck and having to spend your life repaying those bills in addition to your student loans. you also may not have to give up your dreams and take the first job with benefits that comes your way because you can't be without health insurance.

there's an enormous amount of creativity that would be unleashed with universal health care. think of all the risks entrepreneurs could take if they didn't have to worry about where their health care was coming from. i think so many creative, dynamic people are held back because of a lack of social support here in the US -- they are forced into jobs they hate because they have a spouse or a child who must be taken care of.
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