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Old 01-06-2012, 03:35 PM   #691
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it still amazes me the fantasies the right has about Obama. as if there isn't an actual record there to scrutinize. i suppose this is the double-edged sword -- as expertly as Obama allowed his supporters to project their "black messiah" liberal fantasies upon him in 2008, so too can the angry right concoct any number of detached-from-reality conspiracy theories about him.
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Old 01-06-2012, 04:00 PM   #692
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it still amazes me the fantasies the right has about Obama. as if there isn't an actual record there to scrutinize. i suppose this is the double-edged sword -- as expertly as Obama allowed his supporters to project their "black messiah" liberal fantasies upon him in 2008, so too can the angry right concoct any number of detached-from-reality conspiracy theories about him.
True but this to an extent epitomises the problem I've always had with Obama. He's a bit of a cypher. Where's the substance? Ok, getting Osama was a win but that was just a matter of giving the right instruction at the right time. Not rocket science.
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Old 01-06-2012, 04:51 PM   #693
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True but this to an extent epitomises the problem I've always had with Obama. He's a bit of a cypher. Where's the substance? Ok, getting Osama was a win but that was just a matter of giving the right instruction at the right time. Not rocket science.


health care?
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Old 01-06-2012, 07:37 PM   #694
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Mercifully, liberalism has the advantage of time on its side. And those millions of illegals and their offspring that the GOP loves to hate.
So you're acknowledging that liberals are callously allowing the country to be flooded with foreign nationals for the express purpose of securing a voting majority in the future?

Or am I misstating the views of Democrats as wildly and inaccurately as you just did of Republicans?
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:09 PM   #695
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i really don't know what to think anymore.

my leftist friends talk about how Obama is to the right of Ronald Reagan on so many things, like the power of executive branch as well as taxation when we have our meetings over yerba matte down at the Marx Cafe. heck, Reagan raised taxes many times while in office.

then i hear people like you who think he's part of a larger Bolshevik plot and i just get really confused.
Well, you miss the gist of what Brooks is saying.

Quote:
“He’s certainly more liberal than I thought he was. And he’s more liberal than he thinks he is. He thinks he is just slightly center-left. But when you got down to his instincts, they're pretty left. And his problem is he can't really act on them because it would be political disaster. And so that means, I think he is doing very little — proposing very little.”
His instincts are those of a far-left ideologue but he's brought towards the center by political reality. Hence the disappointment of fellow ideologues. For proof of where his heart lies you can look to his Senate voting record; his appointments to the Supreme Court, Attorney General, czars, the EPA and the NLRB; his record spending; what he campaigned on (single-payer healthcare, Cap & Trade, closing Gitmo. etc) and his rhetoric. Find me another president in history ever saying anything like:
"We’re not, we’re not trying to push financial reform because we begrudge success that’s fairly earned. I mean, I do think at a certain point you’ve made enough money."

Don't try, you can't.

On foreign policy he has had enough success and keep our cities safe from terrorism so I'll call that a wash but who doubts that his policies on same-sex marriage, Palestinian statehood and many others won't change once reelection isn't a concern.
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:16 PM   #696
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If his "instincts" without a re-election to worry about are that concerning, I imagine he won't get the campaign dollars from big business, right?
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:48 PM   #697
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Find me another president in history ever saying anything like:
"We’re not, we’re not trying to push financial reform because we begrudge success that’s fairly earned. I mean, I do think at a certain point you’ve made enough money."

Don't try, you can't.
All American presidents since 1945, and plenty before, have made quotes more left wing than that.

Let us know what year you want to start.
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Old 01-06-2012, 10:38 PM   #698
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So you're acknowledging that liberals are callously allowing the country to be flooded with foreign nationals for the express purpose of securing a voting majority in the future?

Or am I misstating the views of Democrats as wildly and inaccurately as you just did of Republicans?
i want to call this a wanker comment, but it'll get me in trouble so i won't.
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:27 PM   #699
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All American presidents since 1945, and plenty before, have made quotes more left wing than that.

Let us know what year you want to start.
Après vous
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:30 PM   #700
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i want to call this a wanker comment, but it'll get me in trouble so i won't.
And the wankerness (?) of "those millions of illegals and their offspring that the GOP loves to hate"?
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:41 PM   #701
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wankishness is probably the best word.
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:47 PM   #702
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wankishness is probably the best word.
Ah, good to know.
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:56 PM   #703
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linguistics are important. you're a good (if not politically misguided in my eyes) man, indy.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:54 AM   #704
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I get aggravated by negative news, so occasional headlines like this are a brief salve:
link
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Panetta to Offer Strategy for Cutting Military Budget
By ELISABETH BUMILLER and THOM SHANKER

WASHINGTON — Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta is set this week to reveal his strategy that will guide the Pentagon in cutting hundreds of billions of dollars from its budget, and with it the Obama administration’s vision of the military that the United States needs to meet 21st-century threats, according to senior officials.

In a shift of doctrine driven by fiscal reality and a deal last summer that kept the United States from defaulting on its debts, Mr. Panetta is expected to outline plans for carefully shrinking the military — and in so doing make it clear that the Pentagon will not maintain the ability to fight two sustained ground wars at once.

Instead, he will say that the military will be large enough to fight and win one major conflict, while also being able to “spoil” a second adversary’s ambitions in another part of the world while conducting a number of other smaller operations, like providing disaster relief or enforcing a no-flight zone.

Pentagon officials, in the meantime, are in final deliberations about potential cuts to virtually every important area of military spending: the nuclear arsenal, warships, combat aircraft, salaries, and retirement and health benefits. With the war in Iraq over and the one in Afghanistan winding down, Mr. Panetta is weighing how significantly to shrink America’s ground forces.

There is broad agreement on the left, right and center that $450 billion in cuts over a decade — the amount that the White House and Pentagon agreed to last summer — is acceptable. That is about 8 percent of the Pentagon’s base budget. But there is intense debate about an additional $500 billion in cuts that may have to be made if Congress follows through with deeper reductions.

Mr. Panetta and defense hawks say a reduction of $1 trillion, about 17 percent of the Pentagon’s base budget, would be ruinous to national security. Democrats and a few Republicans say that it would be painful but manageable; they add that there were steeper military cuts after the Cold War and the wars in Korea and Vietnam.

“Even at a trillion dollars, this is a shallower build-down than any of the last three we’ve done,” said Gordon Adams, who oversaw military budgets in the Clinton White House and is now a fellow at the Stimson Center, a nonprofit research group in Washington. “It would still be the world’s most dominant military. We would be in an arms race with ourselves.”
Make no mistake; I hate cuts based on the accounting of trying to reach an arbitrary target "x billions of dollars". We should pay exactly as much as needed to satisfy our military goals, it's just.....our national goal up until now was to be able to simultaneously defeat two adversaries in a ground war, which just sounds insanely archaic. We're gonna defeat the Nazis and Japs! The "one plus" plan is a positive (cheaper!) step in the right direction. I'm glad a modicum of fiscal discipline is finally being applied to the U.S. military.
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Old 01-07-2012, 12:39 PM   #705
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His instincts are those of a far-left ideologue but he's brought towards the center by political reality.

do you even know what a far-left ideologue is?

Obama's far too professorial to ever be ideological.



Quote:
Hence the disappointment of fellow ideologues. For proof of where his heart lies you can look to his Senate voting record; his appointments to the Supreme Court, Attorney General, czars, the EPA and the NLRB; his record spending; what he campaigned on (single-payer healthcare, Cap & Trade, closing Gitmo. etc) and his rhetoric.
your definitions of left and right are very, very, very skewed. Sotomayor and Kagan are hardly left-wing equivalents of Scalia, Roberts, Thomas, and Alito. and that's just to begin.

Quote:
Find me another president in history ever saying anything like:
"We’re not, we’re not trying to push financial reform because we begrudge success that’s fairly earned. I mean, I do think at a certain point you’ve made enough money."

Don't try, you can't.
it's amazing what you read into the bolded quote. my guess is that he's referring to the so-called "golden parachutes" and 8 figure bonuses of certain executives.

anyway, here you go:

Quote:
"We're going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share ... [tax loopholes] sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying 10 percent of his salary – and that's crazy. Do you think the millionaire ought to pay more in taxes than the bus driver or less?" ~ Ronald Reagan, 1985


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On foreign policy he has had enough success and keep our cities safe from terrorism so I'll call that a wash but who doubts that his policies on same-sex marriage, Palestinian statehood and many others won't change once reelection isn't a concern.
a wash involves the decimation of Al Qaeda, the assassination of Bin Laden, the further weakening of Iran, the end of the Iraq debacle, the lead-from-behind success in Libya, the end of Afghanistan in sight, and the fact that people actually like the US again after 8 years of the most drunk, insane, stupid foreign policy we've ever had?

the only real "failure" he's had is preventing the Likud Party from leading Israel into madness.

you'll notice that the GOP is staying far, far away from foreign policy because, 1) most of them don't know a thing about it, and 2) they know that Obama's record is virtually unimpeachable. they have nothing to offer but China Panic and saber rattles.
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