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Old 01-05-2012, 09:24 PM   #676
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I know the statist utopians here will not agree but President Obama is, by far, the most liberal president to reside in the White House.
Says more about America than it does about Obama.

Mercifully, liberalism has the advantage of time on its side. And those millions of illegals and their offspring that the GOP loves to hate.
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Old 01-05-2012, 09:26 PM   #677
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Says more about America than it does about Obama.
That we're exceptional?
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Old 01-05-2012, 09:28 PM   #678
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Well that's it, I'm sold. Aren't you?
got me. who'd have thought i'd have my epiphany as a result of a piece by the token conservative in the ny times?
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Old 01-05-2012, 09:34 PM   #679
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I know the statist utopians here will not agree but President Obama is, by far, the most liberal president to reside in the White House. And he's in big trouble when even the New York Times' token "conservative" is on to him.
How much money have big corporations given to Barack Obama's campaign? A true liberal candidate would not be supported so well by big business, would he?

And wouldn't a token conservative play the role of token conservative by saying Obama is too liberal?

This is pretty damn weak.
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Old 01-06-2012, 12:22 AM   #680
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I'm still curious how a true liberal could have possibly wanted to sign the sort of stuff Obama did recently in regards to holding people indefinitely without trials, or renewing parts of the Patriot Act.

You know, the very things that the administration previous supported.

I read in the paper yesterday a comment from a man here in my state which said that he was willing to support anyone who would take us away from the path to European socialism that our current president is taking . It never ceases to astound me, those sorts of comments...
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:28 AM   #681
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I'm still curious how a true liberal could have possibly wanted to sign the sort of stuff Obama did recently in regards to holding people indefinitely without trials, or renewing parts of the Patriot Act.
a lot of people in here ( and elsewhere) seem to be baffled by this

Obama signing the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012


I don't get that at all.

what was he supposed to do? veto it?
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:37 AM   #682
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Obama is center-right on just about everything cept those pesky gays and some social economics "fairness" hollow statements that the insurance and banking lobbies have assured stay only notions.

Agree / disagree, Indy?

You and I both know Alternate Universe President McCain would have bailed out the bankers as well. The establishment wouldn't have had it any other way.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:51 AM   #683
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it is not about being right or left

the Senate passed that bill 99-1,
a veto only needs 67 votes to be over ridden

vetoing it only would have given the GOP a winning argument for the 2012 election
instead he signed it, with a signing statement, stating what parts he would not follow.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:59 AM   #684
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it is not about being right or left

the Senate passed that bill 99-1,
a veto only needs 67 votes to be over ridden

vetoing it only would have given the GOP a winning argument for the 2012 election
instead he signed it, with a signing statement, stating what parts he would not follow.
NDAA and the Patriot Act are very much Washington, D.C. and military industrial complex things rather than Democrat / Republican things.
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Old 01-06-2012, 10:13 AM   #685
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The US centre-line is to the right of almost every other similar nation. Obama is definitely centre-right almost anywhere else.
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Old 01-06-2012, 10:24 AM   #686
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The US centre-line is to the right of almost every other similar nation. Obama is definitely centre-right almost anywhere else.
Maybe I have my radar calibrated to pre 9-11 hysteria security culture, then.

Obama is centre-right for American politics, for me.
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Old 01-06-2012, 10:55 AM   #687
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For overall American politics, maybe, but for a president? I can't imagine a US president getting that much further left, but a lot further right, meaning, the centre line is further to the right, as the minute you drop a toe into something that is even just mildly left elsewhere - Hows about some healthcare? And I don't mind the gays that much? - you're an uber-liberal president in the US. What are the main reasons why someone like Indy can with any kind of straight face claim Obama as some uber-liberal?

I know a lot of that comes down to the strong US debate about the size and role of the government, but even then, it all flips around based on the topic. You've got conservatives complaining about the existence of the Dept. of Education, but happy to hand over ridiculous powers - real 'tyrannical' government power - to various agencies in the name of national isolated uneducated sheltered paranoia security.
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:00 AM   #688
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
I know the statist utopians here will not agree but President Obama is, by far, the most liberal president to reside in the White House. And he's in big trouble when even the New York Times' token "conservative" is on to him.

i really don't know what to think anymore.

my leftist friends talk about how Obama is to the right of Ronald Reagan on so many things, like the power of executive branch as well as taxation when we have our meetings over yerba matte down at the Marx Cafe. heck, Reagan raised taxes many times while in office.

then i hear people like you who think he's part of a larger Bolshevik plot and i just get really confused.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:07 PM   #689
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Originally Posted by Earnie Shavers View Post
The US centre-line is to the right of almost every other similar nation. Obama is definitely centre-right almost anywhere else.
bingo. i'd never vote for him if he ran in the new zealand system because he'd probably represent several of the parties i consider myself diametrically opposed to.

meanwhile our current way too right ruling party would be raging lefties in the us.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:15 PM   #690
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then i hear people like you who think he's part of a larger Bolshevik plot and i just get really confused.
Well, apparently there are also people in America - maybe Indy is among them, I'm not sure - who think that the billionaire capitalist speculator/hedge fund owner George Soros is a Marxist-Leninist because he has donated to the Democrats.

Obama, I think, did have quite a left wing voting record in Congress. As President it seems to me he has adopted largely centre right positions.
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