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Old 12-08-2011, 04:00 PM   #601
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yeah, the thought of a 14 year old boy getting an 11 year old girl pregnant
and then taking care of it, like buying cough drops,
does not strike a blow for women's rights
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Old 12-08-2011, 04:07 PM   #602
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Girls that age are women? I don't feel betrayed.

yahoo.com

Kirsten Moore, president of the Reproductive Health Technologies Project, an advocacy group that had supported drugstore shelf access for all ages, expressed anger at President Barack Obama's administration.

"We are outraged that this administration has let politics trump science. There is no rationale for this move. This is unprecedented as evidenced by the commissioner's own letter. Unbelievable," she said.

The National Organization for Women called the move "a stunning betrayal of women."
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Old 12-08-2011, 04:19 PM   #603
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There is no rationale for this move.

everything is black or white for some people,
once they draw a line, they spend the rest of their lives putting every person or opinion on one side or the other.
lazy think = wrong conclusions
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Old 12-08-2011, 04:28 PM   #604
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Yes I think as women we can rationally think about both sides of such a drug being available to girls that age. And we can do our best to help them in their lives, however much is possible, to hopefully prevent pregnancy and make decisions that are in their own best interests.

Personally I think that helping girls to focus on their self esteem and intellect will help them to make smart decisions about sex and protecting themselves. And I think that's feminist.

I don't think it's a black and white issue when it comes to girls that age.
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Old 12-08-2011, 04:59 PM   #605
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I just want people who can't support kids... to stop having kids.




This pill would have helped with that.
Today is a sad day
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Old 12-08-2011, 05:41 PM   #606
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lazy think = wrong conclusions
Have you read Sebelius' reasoning for not permitting the sale of Plan B over the counter to teenagers? It is actually really silly.

I am not saying this is a good or bad policy. But if you're going to slam lazy thinking, then take a look at her lazy explanation. This was not a medical decision, it was a policy-based decision. Which doesn't make it wrong, but what irritates me is that her stated reasoning is medical and it's ridiculous. Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining - tell us it's a policy decision rather than insulting our intelligence.
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Old 12-08-2011, 05:44 PM   #607
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She said this in her statement


"It is common knowledge that there are significant cognitive and behavioral differences between older adolescent girls and the youngest girls of reproductive age. If the application were approved, the product would be available, without prescription, for all girls of reproductive age."

And yes, I can only imagine the GOP reaction and attack ads and debate comments, etc. if the decision was different.
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Old 12-08-2011, 05:52 PM   #608
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She said a number of things, including:

Quote:
However, the switch from prescription to over the counter for this product requires that we have enough evidence to show that those who use this medicine can understand the label and use the product appropriately.
It's a single dose pill. As one commentator said, it would be easier to misuse Advil.

I think there are sound policy reasons for this (though I don't necessarily agree), but the reasoning that it's somehow dangerous because 16 year old girls are incapable of following the instructions tantamount to "take this one pill" is silly.
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Old 12-08-2011, 06:01 PM   #609
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It's a single dose pill. As one commentator said, it would be easier to misuse Advil.

I think there are sound policy reasons for this (though I don't necessarily agree), but the reasoning that it's somehow dangerous because 16 year old girls are incapable of following the instructions tantamount to "take this one pill" is silly.
I see that side of it too. I don't think she meant 16 year olds though, I thought she was talking about preteens and that could be any age where pregnancy is possible these days (like she said, all girls of reproductive age). Anyone can argue they think that is a meaningless distinction, I suppose. Or a solely politically motivated one.
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Old 12-08-2011, 06:34 PM   #610
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As I understand it, the FDA's studies (both the medical effects studies and the label comprehension studies) didn't include any girls under 12. So in citing the fact that a small minority of girls start menstruating earlier than that, Sebelius was basically rejecting their conclusions on a technicality. I agree with anitram, it seems pretty cowardly to hide behind that when most of the potential OTC purchasers her override shuts out will be 15 and 16 year olds, not preteens.
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It's a single dose pill.
And costs more than $50 for that single dose, an amount few fifth-graders are likely to have on hand.
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:10 PM   #611
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The average 13-year-old who does have sex will probably steal the damn box anyway, admit it.
I just have a problem with people shoving pills down their throats for everything these days without looking twice at the side effects, or dosage. I do think if a 13-year-old wants the pill, she needs to talk to the pharmacist and get a proper talking to about the risks and whatnot, rather than taking it to some reject cashier in the front of the store.
Assuming she's gonna pay for it.

I agree: less babies having babies. Less babies is good too, but that's a whole other thread.
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Old 12-09-2011, 01:35 PM   #612
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The primary risk is that if you don't take it, in another couple months you might be having to decide between having an abortion and having a baby. Other than that, the risks are the same side effects millions of women already associate with their menstrual cycle--cramps, headache, sore breasts, nausea. That's it. No risk of blood clots, uterine hermorrhaging or anything like that, it's just an ovulation suppressant. It's not at all a comparable situation to buying a big bottle of sleeping pills or ibuprofen then proceeding to OD or make yourself dependent on them though continuous use.

The fact that very few women/girls/females of reproductive age/WTF-evers under 17 are realistically likely to have the presence of mind (or the money) to resort to Plan B within the necessary 72-hour window anyhow, keeps me from getting too severely galled about it. But Sebelius' disingenuous focus on the remote hypothetical of 10-year-olds buying it, and even more so Obama's smarmy paternalistic b.s. about "alongside the bubble gum" (gum isn't kept behind the pharmacist's counter, last time I checked) both made me want to gag.

It goes without saying that NO American parent is "okay with" their 16-year-old, never mind their 10-year-old, having unprotected sex in the first place, but that's not at all the point.
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Old 12-09-2011, 03:26 PM   #613
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I will admit to not being as up to speed on this as I should have been
I guess I blurred this with the abortion pill

this product seems like it is more for a woman that does not want the effects of birth control pills,
but may upon occasion have unprotected sex, and instead of worrying if conception occurred, for $10 - $70, (that is one price range I saw) she can take one doze and put her mind at ease, instead of waiting to see if a pregnancy takes and then going through all that would be involved in having it terminated.

I see a woman using this randomly, if it was used on a regular bases, one would be better off just taking birth control


with that in mind, I can understand, why in a perfect world, a 17+ year old girl could be a reasonable candidate

but we do not live in anything close to a perfect world, and with one extreme,the person-hood group, wanting to call the use of this pill murder, they want the glass to be empty.

And on the other side, if an 11 year old had unprotected sex, and had the good sense to take this pill, why would any one not want that to be an option, is it better for her to get pregnant?? Let the glass be completely full, right?

well, we do live in an imperfect, political world

Empty glass side have a big loss with this

and full glass side, well, they got 4/5 full glass.

remember if we had a GOP President, he would stop foreign aid if it did any kind of family planning,
and this drug would have no chance of being "over the counter" for anyone, and many would be pushing to ban it completely, for murdering 'person-hoods'.
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Old 12-11-2011, 02:32 PM   #614
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Of course it's not better for her to get pregnant. In a perfect world I don't want preteen girls having sex at all. But I know we don't live in that world. In that world I want them to have all options (to prevent STD's and pregnancy) but to choose the option of waiting.

I do think for many people that is a big part of the issue. Obviously President Obama wouldn't want his daughters to get pregnant but imo no way in hell does he want them having sex any time in the near future. It's not at all the point, but emotionally..when you're the parent or not even the parent. Just thinking about girls that age and all the complications and implications. It's just not easy for many people to separate all of that.

I'm not even thinking about it in any murdering personhood terms
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Old 12-17-2011, 03:30 PM   #615
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Yup.
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