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Old 11-14-2011, 02:23 PM   #526
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Or it could just be a fluke poll.

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Obama and Democrats' Health Care Plan
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Old 11-14-2011, 03:48 PM   #527
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possibly.

but the last poll in that RCP was late October, it's been a few weeks, and Obama's numbers have continued a gradual rise, wouldn't surprise me if this issue follows suit.

also, people might be discovering that having more people with insurance is a good thing, that a pre-existing condition can no longer disqualify you from having insurance is a good thing, and that kids being able to remain on their parent's health care is also a good thing.

i really can understand the philosophical objection to the idea of a "mandate." i might not agree, but i can understand it.

i can't understand the total unwillingness of those opposed to the Affordable Care Act to acknowledge that, yes, there are some very, very good and important improvements in the bill.
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Old 11-14-2011, 03:53 PM   #528
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either way, the Supreme Court could make this a non-issue


also, I think most people that see themselves as not being affected by it, they are guessing they are against it.

as more and more people are impacted with higher and higher co-pays and insurance costs, they would rather have some controls, vs no controls.
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Old 11-14-2011, 04:21 PM   #529
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The interesting possibility for Summer 2012 will be both President Obama and Eventual Nominee Romney both having to face down their own brand of legislation being declared unconstitutional. Both of them pushed through healthcare legislation requiring the mandatory purchase of health insurance to get the provisions to work.
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Old 11-14-2011, 04:25 PM   #530
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what's also weird is that my premiums just went down by about $17 this month.
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Old 11-14-2011, 04:38 PM   #531
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Here is CA many are getting rebates, there is a state law that something like 70 % of money collected must go for health care, if audits show that is not the case premiums are lowed or rebates. There really are only a couple of big insurance companies here, Blue Cross, Blue Shield, Anthem. Kaiser.

The State Insurance Commissioner has not allowed some rate increases, or lower them after audits show they were not justified.

Keep in mind the insurance companies have a lot of control on these numbers, and still they are making/showing huge profits.
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Old 11-14-2011, 04:48 PM   #532
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I also do accept that there are credible arguments to be made for free markets in health care

look at the costs of breast augmentations, the costs in a free market have come down drastically over the years

the same could be said for laser eye surgeries, these costs are probably at 25% of the they were first offered at. And I do attribute that to market factors. Because those are paid by the consumer and not paid for by insurance coverage. If they were covered by insurance, the costs would be much, much higher.

Those services do better in a free market, like cell phones. Ability to enter the market and compete drives the costs down with better products/ services.

Unfortunately, many or most health need requirements are not as open to free markets.
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Old 11-14-2011, 07:34 PM   #533
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You can argue that breast augmentations and eye surgery for vision correction are non-essential services, though, and depend on discretionary income.

Setting a broken arm is not an optional expenditure for an individual.
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Old 11-14-2011, 07:51 PM   #534
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Actually breast reductions and vision correction are covered on many occasions.
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:01 PM   #535
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The interesting possibility for Summer 2012 will be both President Obama and Eventual Nominee Romney both having to face down their own brand of legislation being declared unconstitutional. Both of them pushed through healthcare legislation requiring the mandatory purchase of health insurance to get the provisions to work.
The constitutionality of the Massachusetts law isn't in question as it pertains only to citizens of Massachusetts. States can compel its citizens to buy car insurance for example. At question is the authority of the federal government to compel the purchase of insurance using the Commerce Clause.
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:06 PM   #536
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You can argue that breast augmentations and eye surgery for vision correction are non-essential services, though, and depend on discretionary income.

Setting a broken arm is not an optional expenditure for an individual.
Setting a broken arm was also quite affordable until third party payers and defensive medicine entered the picture.
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:49 PM   #537
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Setting a broken arm was also quite affordable until third party payers and defensive medicine entered the picture.
So setting a broken arm in 1920 was less expensive than in 2011? that's your argument? On the surface that's a pretty true statement, beyond the surface it's one of your most ridiculous arguments I've ever seen.
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:13 PM   #538
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Setting a broken arm was also quite affordable until third party payers and defensive medicine entered the picture.
If you want 1950s prices, you'll get 1950s medicine.
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:21 AM   #539
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If you want 1950s prices, you'll get 1950s medicine.
It might be worth it if we get 1950s tax rates.

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Old 11-15-2011, 12:30 PM   #540
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and 1950's gas
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