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Old 09-27-2011, 03:33 PM   #391
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while i agree and think that Obama's considerable achievements have been overlooked, partly due to a sputtering economy (compared to Clinton's roaring economy), but part of that is also his fault.

he absolutely invited us to believe that he was the one we had been waiting for, that he was the great hope that liberals have always believed would come and save us all from history and move us into a utopian future. Obama understood this very, very well, and he knew that, consciously or subconsciously, his life story is *exactly* what liberals believe is the stuff of real American exceptionalism.

so he has played a part in whatever disappointment white liberals might feel, because he not just allowed but invited them to project whatever qualities they wanted upon him.

and i suppose i'm just repeating what's been outlined in the article, but i also think that such wistful thinking evaporates when you're in the voting booth and potentially looking at a lever with the words "PERRY/RUBIO (R)" on them.
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Old 09-27-2011, 06:56 PM   #392
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I was pretty startled by that "But Obama asked for it" twist at the end of Walsh's article, and I guess I'm not buying it, honestly. All presidential campaigns seek to present their candidate as the one to make America work again, all presidential candidates need egos large enough to believe that they personally are special enough to deserve to lead the country--this stuff's par for the course with presidential systems, you get the checks and balances but also some inevitable deus ex machina bullshit in the bargain. Obama isn't unique in this way. To me the signature feature of his campaign was an outward-directed emphasis on building a movement, a network of future activists and in particular youth activists that might be useful to the party in other ways in the future--that's what I took all the "we" stuff to be about. You could certainly make an argument that an election campaign isn't an enduring enough foundation from which to launch initiatives that in truth we need unions, environmental groups, civil rights organizations etc. for, but that doesn't make it a stealth vehicle for coaxing participants and supporters into projecting their personal and collective salvation fantasies onto the candidate. It's not the candidate's responsibility to warn or admonish, "Look, support me for the right reasons please, okay."
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Old 09-27-2011, 08:10 PM   #393
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I think Obama is keenly aware that the liberal messiah was never going to be white. I think his very post-ness ("goodbye to all that") was something utterly unique about him, and only him, and while I agree that every candidate wants you to project your hopes and dreams upon them, I think Obama alone was able to racialize it by deracializing it, if that makes sense.

As for white's greater disappointment -- and while I know all too well the double-standard of having to be exceptional to be normal, as well as the burden of those who are the status quo looking to you to elevate them through their faith in you, and what double-standards they both are -- well, you've got to ride the tiger you rode in on. And elevating otherness in one set of eyes becomes socialist/communist/Maoist/hitler/Antichrist in the eyes of another.

But how could Obama have ever won without this? On paper, HRC was easily the stronger candidate (with evident baggage). McCain too. They held the most enduring brands in politics denoted by their last names.
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Old 09-27-2011, 08:32 PM   #394
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not that it matters, but Hillary got more votes than Obama in the primaries, Obama got the Democratic nomination a bit like Bush got the Whitehouse in 2000, he (his people) worked the system
don't count the votes in Mich and Florida

Hillary would have easily beat McCain, any Dem could have won in 2008, the Bush/Cheney fatigue was palpable.

It is a shame Obama got thrown to the lions, he could have gone down as one of our greatest Presidents in 2016 or 2020, with a bit more seasoning in the Senate.

Now, he will go down as the brilliant amateur .
A footnote.
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:29 PM   #395
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everyone knew the rules in the '08 primaries.

this is in no way comparable to a 5-4 SCOTUS decision.
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Old 09-27-2011, 10:36 PM   #396
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yeah, I do feel we have discussed the 08 primary enough.

I just feel winning the 08 election was bad for Obama, it is a terrible time to be the Chief Executive.

I think it is likely that he will be out next year. And if the economy does slowly turn around he will get labeled as being a poor executive.
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Old 09-28-2011, 12:28 AM   #397
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HRC's last name was very much a double-edged sword for her, I think, on paper and otherwise. Useful when she was able to essentially present accomplishments that were really her husband's as her own, not so useful when it came to lingering smears that were essentially about her husband rather than her.
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I think Obama is keenly aware that the liberal messiah was never going to be white. I think his very post-ness ("goodbye to all that") was something utterly unique about him, and only him, and while I agree that every candidate wants you to project your hopes and dreams upon them, I think Obama alone was able to racialize it by deracializing it, if that makes sense.
I think I understand what you mean re: racializing by deracializing (and it's a much more sophisticated argument than Walsh was making), but I still tend to see that image as one some supporters projected onto him, rather than something he claimed himself. Obama is relatively young for a 'black leader' and surely that generational factor does play some role in his racial self-concept, as does the fact that he's the biracial child of an African and an American, that he grew up in the only US state never to have a white majority, that he spent several years as a schoolchild in Indonesia, whom his closest friends and mentors have been over his life, and no doubt various other factors. None of those nuances make him 'post'-racial though, I don't recall him ever suggesting anything to that effect, and I'm not sure African-American primary voters would've warmed to him if he had. As far as broader readings of 'post-,' that he somehow embodies the end of the Culture Wars (hence "liberal messiah"?) in other ways as well, I never really saw or understood that one either. An openly expressed longing for it, sure (the "More Perfect Union" speech being a particularly eloquent example), but not a claim that he, or we, have actually transcended it.
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As for white's greater disappointment -- and while I know all too well the double-standard of having to be exceptional to be normal, as well as the burden of those who are the status quo looking to you to elevate them through their faith in you, and what double-standards they both are -- well, you've got to ride the tiger you rode in on. And elevating otherness in one set of eyes becomes socialist/communist/Maoist/hitler/Antichrist in the eyes of another.
Yes, as a re-election obstacle it is what it is, but in addition to condescending double standards (what a thoughtful, reasonable, model black man!) and 'elevated' white guilt (what a transformational person I am for liking this guy!) there's also always been the possibility of simply respecting convictions or insights that are clearly hard-won, and not the afforded pretty talk of someone who's never been challenged. I think the socialist/communist/Maoist/hitler/Antichrist reaction stems in part from an inability to imagine or recognize a positive response beyond the former two.
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Old 09-30-2011, 12:54 PM   #398
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Obama kills even more Al Qaeda.

Who was Anwar al-Awlaki? - CBS News
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Old 09-30-2011, 02:15 PM   #399
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or was it the CIA that W put in place?


(in a year or two Obama's military will be catching these guys and giving them make-overs)
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:11 PM   #400
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For those of you in living in the "moral gray area" I know this is a bit of a conundrum but for those of us in the good/evil, black and white world it's great news.
So even though I risk sounding like a bloodthirsty hater at a GOP debate let be just say, "Wahoooooooooo, nice shootin' Prez!!
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:53 PM   #401
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Woohoo for assassinating American citizens abroad!
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Old 10-01-2011, 01:05 AM   #402
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Woohoo for assassinating American citizens abroad!
All this made possible by the Budh administration.

The genie is out of the bottle ... So while this might be a "good" thing, it raises some very difficult questions and genuine dilemmas. This will not be simple.
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Old 10-01-2011, 01:17 AM   #403
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Yes, it is a shame he was not French or even Canadian,
anything but an American.
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:55 AM   #404
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Washington (CNN) -- Former Vice President Dick Cheney praised the Obama administration Sunday for using a drone strike to kill American-born Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, but said President Barack Obama should now reverse past criticism of former President George W. Bush's actions against suspected terrorists.

Al-Awlaki -- an American whose fluency in English and technology made him one of the top terrorist recruiters in the world -- was killed Friday in Yemen, according to U.S. and Yemeni government officials.

The strike also killed Samir Khan, an American of Pakistani origin, and two others who were in the same vehicle as al-Awlaki, said the U.S. official, who was briefed by the CIA. Khan specialized in computer programming for al Qaeda and authored the terror network's online magazine, Inspire.

"I think it was a very good strike. I think it was justified," Cheney told CNN's Candy Crowley on "State of the Union." But "I'm waiting for the administration to go back and correct something they said two years ago when they criticized us for 'overreacting' to the events of 9/11."
Cheney approves of al-Awlaki attack

The Obama administration has "clearly ... moved in the direction of taking robust action when they feel it is justified," Cheney said.

Cheney's daughter, Liz Cheney, went a step further, saying Obama "in effect said that we had walked away from (America's) ideals."

"I think he did tremendous damage," Liz Cheney said. "I think he slandered the nation and I think he owes an apology to the American people."

When asked by Crowley if Dick Cheney also wants an apology, the former vice president replied, "Well, I would. I think that would be not for me, but I think for the Bush administration."

Republican critics of the administration claim it is hypocritical for Obama to approve the killing of Americans without due process while criticizing Bush officials for signing off on the use of so-called "enhanced interrogation techniques" such as waterboarding.

The use of such techniques has been banned by Obama.

Former Rep. Jane Harman, D-California, told CNN that she believes many of Obama's critiques of the Bush White House -- most notably its secrecy -- are valid.

"I don't think the Obama administration should be repeating" those mistakes, Harman said. "I think the debate about the legal grounds (for counterterrorism strategy) should be more in the open," she said. In particular, "we should have a legal framework around our interrogation and detention policies far more than we do now."

Harman, a former top member of the House Intelligence and Homeland Security committees, also cautioned about the need for strict guidelines in the use of drone strikes, which have increased under Obama's watch. Critics of drone strikes argue that they undermine the U.S. cause by killing innocent civilians, infringing on the sovereignty of other nations and generating sympathy for al Qaeda and other extremist organizations.

"We could abuse this program," Harman said. "We've got to have a counter-narrative (to dissuade potential terrorists). We've got to live our values."

Retired Gen. Michael Hayden, a former CIA director under George W. Bush, largely dismissed Harman's warning, telling CNN that critics of drone strikes "greatly exaggerate" their collateral damage.

The strikes are arguably the most critical weapon in the U.S. arsenal against al Qaeda, Hayden said.
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Old 10-03-2011, 04:08 PM   #405
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A majority of Americans expect Barack Obama to be a one-term president, an assessment on which, in past elections, the public has more often been right than wrong.

Uh Ohhh...

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