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Old 08-10-2009, 11:26 AM   #1
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Obama General Discussion... (Part 2)

Since the last thread "Go Obama!" was closed from 1,000 posts... here is a continuation thread.

I think we left off somewhere about Health Care reform....

Debate Discuss away!
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Old 08-10-2009, 11:47 AM   #2
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i remain very impressed by our new president.

the level of discourse and the discussion on actual, real ideas is very heartening after 8 years of fear, paranoia, and utter lunacy.

his poll numbers will go up and down, he's got a daunting workload, but i'm glad he's there because he's vastly more prepared than McCain, and running the risk of a Palin presidency is absolutely unthinkable.

i just wish we could all disagree with more civility, since Obama has been nothing but civil (cool as a cucumber) since he began.
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Old 08-10-2009, 12:09 PM   #3
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How Pelosi and Hoyer and the like can continue to call these protesters un-American is just baffling. They write today "Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American." I'm glad they feel that way. I'm going to assume that they've come to the defense of every conservative speaker that has ever been disrupted on a college campus (Ann Coulter, the Minutemen, I could go on).

I also find it sadly ironic that this White House- the most organized, choreographed administration in history- seems to be against the idea of people coming together to unite in opposition- to the point of name calling and dismissal. Everything in this administration is so coordinated and fake that they don't recognize real people when they see them, and they end up making Nazi, terrorist, and Tim McVeigh comparisons.

A community organizer can't whine when communities organize.

The tide is turning, that much is certain. Assuming the GOP wins the governorship in NJ and VA later this year, the Democratic Party better brace itself for 2010.
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Old 08-10-2009, 12:25 PM   #4
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How Pelosi and Hoyer and the like can continue to call these protesters un-American is just baffling. They write today "Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American." I'm glad they feel that way. I'm going to assume that they've come to the defense of every conservative speaker that has ever been disrupted on a college campus (Ann Coulter, the Minutemen, I could go on).

I also find it sadly ironic that this White House- the most organized, choreographed administration in history- seems to be against the idea of people coming together to unite in opposition- to the point of name calling and dismissal. Everything in this administration is so coordinated and fake that they don't recognize real people when they see them, and they end up making Nazi, terrorist, and Tim McVeigh comparisons.

A community organizer can't whine when communities organize.

The tide is turning, that much is certain. Assuming the GOP wins the governorship in NJ and VA later this year, the Democratic Party better brace itself for 2010.



here's a delicious irony for you:


Quote:
Over the last few days, a conservative activist in St. Louis named Kenneth Gladney seems to have become something of a cause celebre in far-right circles. Depending on which version of events you choose to believe, Gladney either initiated or was involved in a scuffle at a town-hall event late last week.

At least one prominent conservative blogger said Gladney was "brutally attacked" by SEIU members outside the event. After watching the video, there's ample reason for skepticism. Gladney was, in fact, pulled to the ground during the fracas, but he seemed to bounce back up quickly, and is seen walking around soon after without any obvious injuries. His attorney has argued that Gladney was beaten during the fight, but there's nothing in the clip to support that.

Gladney later went to the hospital, claiming to have sustained injuries to his "knee, back, elbow, shoulder and face."

Yesterday, about 200 conservative activists held a protest outside the SEIU office in St. Louis. Gladney was there -- bandaged and in a wheelchair -- as a featured guest. Some of the activists held signs that read, "Don't Tread on Kenny." Reader R.D. alerted me to this tidbit in the local news account of the protest:

Quote:
Gladney did not address Saturday's crowd of about 200 people. His attorney, David Brown, however, read a prepared statement Gladney wrote. "A few nights ago there was an assault on my liberty, and on yours, too." Brown read. "This should never happen in this country."

Supporters cheered. Brown finished by telling the crowd that Gladney is accepting donations toward his medical expenses. Gladney told reporters he was recently laid off and has no health insurance.
[emphasis added]
Wait, the conservative opponent of health care reform, fighting (literally) to defeat a plan that would bring coverage to those who lose their jobs, lost his coverage because he got laid off?

I'm not in a position to say whether Gladney sustained genuine injuries or whether he's exaggerating for 15 minutes of Fox News fame and a lucrative out-of-court settlement.

Either way, the new right-wing cause celebre needs to take up a collection to pay for his medical bills because he doesn't have health insurance. It's a fascinating sign of the times.

The Washington Monthly
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Old 08-10-2009, 12:28 PM   #5
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pardon me for my Canadian/socialist ignorance but why are you guys against universal health care exactly?
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Old 08-10-2009, 12:41 PM   #6
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Tim McVeigh comparisons.
"My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building."-Ann Coulter. I suppose this is an example of how Ann the Man and her fellow conservatives heighten political discourse and champion dissent?
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Old 08-10-2009, 01:00 PM   #7
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"My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building."-Ann Coulter. I suppose this is an example of how Ann the Man and her fellow conservatives heighten political discourse and champion dissent?
And that's a stupid thing to say as well. But she's an entertainer known for her shock value, just like people like Bill Maher are when they say stuff like:

"President Bush is supporting Arnold but a lot of Republicans are not, because he is actually quite liberal. Karl Rove said if his father wasn`t a Nazi, he wouldn`t have any credibility with conservatives at all."


It's quite different when you have an elected representative of the United States making these comparisons. It's just plain irresponsible.
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Old 08-10-2009, 01:06 PM   #8
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^So I suppose you found Sarah Palin's "death panel" comments just as inappropriate and hyperbolic? I suppose that when Mitt Romney declared his support for McCain and said in effect that those who voted Democratic supported terrorism you were enraged that a public official would talk that way? I suppose that when the Bush administration said that any elected official who didn't support the Patriot Act or the Iraq invasion was "unAmerican", you were shocked and appalled? I don't think so. Frankly, I have no idea what you're talking about when you say the Obama administration has compared anybody to a Nazi. I tried searching for it and came up with nothing.
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Old 08-10-2009, 01:15 PM   #9
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Obama general discussion, huh?

I think he's good-looking, articulate, intelligent, compassionate, with good taste in baseball teams and bad taste in beer. I like him and am glad he's the POTUS.
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Old 08-10-2009, 01:16 PM   #10
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pardon me for my Canadian/socialist ignorance but why are you guys against universal health care exactly?
Typical Canadian Slime badgering.
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Old 08-10-2009, 01:23 PM   #11
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^So I suppose you found Sarah Palin's "death panel" comments just as inappropriate and hyperbolic? I suppose that when Mitt Romney declared his support for McCain and said in effect that those who voted Democratic supported terrorism you were enraged that a public official would talk that way? I suppose that when the Bush administration said that any elected official who didn't support the Patriot Act or the Iraq invasion was "unAmerican", you were shocked and appalled? I don't think so. Frankly, I have no idea what you're talking about when you say the Obama administration has compared anybody to a Nazi. I tried searching for it and came up with nothing.
Can you give me some sources? Because I don't recall any instances of mere opposition to the PATRIOT Act being deemed "un-American." And with regards to the Romney comment, I believe you're twisting his words around. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the quote you're referring to is:

""If I fight on in my campaign, all the way to the convention, I would forestall the launch of a national campaign and make it more likely that Senator Clinton or Obama would win. And in this time of war, I simply cannot let my campaign, be a part of aiding a surrender to terror,"

...which I find nothing offensive about. Nowhere in there does he do anything close to implying that a vote for Democrats means the support of Al-Qaeda. What he does do is imply that a Democratic administration would fight a weaker war on terror. And now that terms like "terror," "global war" and "jihad" have been deemed unnecessary, it's hard to argue that he's incorrect.

Have you not heard Pelosi's "swastika" comment? I've seen ONE poster with a swastika on it, and she's attempting to paint the whole crowd with that brush. And yet I didn't hear a peep from her when there were protests in her own district consisting of posters with Hitler imagery and swastikas with President Bush. She can't have it both ways. And what does she mean by "symbols like that," anyway? She's delusional, methinks.

Tell me- don't you think the comparisons to Nazis, brownshirts, political terrorists and Timothy McVeigh are completely uncalled for? Especially when many of them are coming from representatives of the United States?
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Old 08-10-2009, 01:32 PM   #12
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""If I fight on in my campaign, all the way to the convention, I would forestall the launch of a national campaign and make it more likely that Senator Clinton or Obama would win. And in this time of war, I simply cannot let my campaign, be a part of aiding a surrender to terror,"

...which I find nothing offensive about.
Give me a break. You, Glenn Beck and the Rushies of this country would be up in arms if Obama had been on the campaign trail suggesting that a vote for McCain or Huckabee would just be a vote to surrender to terror.
You have to AT LEAST find it offensive that a candidate for a major party would suggest that all the other people voting for the other side are somehow contributing to terrorism. This is Daisy 101 stuff!

Even if the other side is doing it, the least you can do if you plan to carry a label of prestige on your campaign is to rise above shock-value insults. Most people do not fall for them and it only reflects negatively on the person saying it. I find nothing worthwhile about Pelosi or Coulter, I'll give you that much.
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Old 08-10-2009, 01:44 PM   #13
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Give me a break. You, Glenn Beck and the Rushies of this country would be up in arms if Obama had been on the campaign trail suggesting that a vote for McCain or Huckabee would just be a vote to surrender to terror.
Not really. I'd actually think it was pretty funny.

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You have to AT LEAST find it offensive that a candidate for a major party would suggest that all the other people voting for the other side are somehow contributing to terrorism. This is Daisy 101 stuff!
I think people who wanted to read something larger into his statement will do just that. I just disagree with you. If Mitt Romney had said "If you vote Democrat, you support Al-Qaeda" then yes, I'd have a problem with that.

I'll tell you what I do find offensive coming from the mouth of a candidate:

""It's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

"But she is a typical white person, who, if she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know, you know, there's a reaction that's been bred in our experiences that don't go away and that sometimes come out in the wrong way, and that's just the nature of race in our society."

And so on...

Also, can EVERYBODY cut the Hitler and Nazi comparisons? Whether it's from a politician or a political commentator (and yes, I'm including Rush ) or some joe with a poster, it's just unnecessary. As much as I hate Barack Obama and think he'll be probably the worst president in history, I'm not a big fan of comparing anyone or anything to Hitler. Both sides need to adopt this.
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Old 08-10-2009, 01:48 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
""If I fight on in my campaign, all the way to the convention, I would forestall the launch of a national campaign and make it more likely that Senator Clinton or Obama would win. And in this time of war, I simply cannot let my campaign, be a part of aiding a surrender to terror,"

...which I find nothing offensive about.
Wow. He is basically arguing that if Democrats win it would be aiding a surrender to terror, and you find nothing offensive about that? I find it hard to listen to you whine about Pelosi wanting it both ways and being unfair when you're being just as unfair.

Quote:
And now that terms like "terror," "global war" and "jihad" have been deemed unnecessary, it's hard to argue that he's incorrect.
The use of simple terms should bear no indication on how dedicated an administration is to a fight. I know we all love our catch phrases, but come on.
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Old 08-10-2009, 01:51 PM   #15
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Have you not heard Pelosi's "swastika" comment? I've seen ONE poster with a swastika on it, and she's attempting to paint the whole crowd with that brush. And yet I didn't hear a peep from her when there were protests in her own district consisting of posters with Hitler imagery and swastikas with President Bush. She can't have it both ways. And what does she mean by "symbols like that," anyway? She's delusional, methinks.


do you really think that this is the best use of your political energies? getting mad because the other side didn't condemn bad behavior enough? doesn't it strike you that Nancy Pelosi might have other things to do than to equivocate on TV? i'm sure if you asked her, she'd agree with you, but why would she spend her time making sure your feelings aren't hurt or to assuage your sense of outrage or to pat you on the head so that chip on your shoulder stays put?

is this really what we want our political leaders to be doing? is this worth your time and energy? would you like to offer something -- anything -- to the health care debate, something that actually could be of substance? all you've complained about is whatever media representations or misrepresentations there might be in regards to whatever protest is currently happening, you never, ever say anything about the actually substance of the issue itself. you just complain about whatever perceived hypocrisy you're sensing at the moment not in regards to the debate, but in regards to the debate about the debate.

what do you think needs to be done in regards to the health care bill? in regards to Afghanistan?
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