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Old 09-17-2009, 11:50 AM   #721
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I don't understand or accept for a second why the Lancet would be viewed as a politically motivated source.

If you have better figures, let's see them.
Well, I was not actually refering to the people who conducted the Lancet study, but those who parade that study around as being hard facts when it is anything but that.

Again, any study that basis its figures on actual events, deaths of persons in those events, looks at what caused their death, accurately identifies who died, including the results of studies done on the body to determine cause of death, and does not extrapolate such figures to determine how many people died in an area where no actual investigations were done is an accurate study.

That is why the figures for deaths on 9/11 are accurate, why they are accurate for coaltion deaths in Iraq, why they are accurate for coalition deaths in Afghanistan.

iCasualties: Operation Enduring Freedom and Iraq Body Count both make attempts to accurately count how many people have died although not to the degree that it has been done for citizens living in the west and coalition forces. iCasualties: Operation Enduring Freedom had a problem with their website so their Iraqi casualty figures have not been put back online yet.

These figures are much closer to the truth than the wild extrapolations done with the Lancet study.

Also, now that you bring up the political motivations of those conducting the Lancet study, its interesting to note that they NEVER did a similar study for Afghanistan!
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:57 AM   #722
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and the national debt?

who did better, Clinton or Bush?


National debt by U.S. presidential terms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Average National Federal Debt as a percentage of GDP:

Clinton Years 64.5%
Bush Years 63.0%



Average GDP growth rate:

Clinton Years 5.8%
Bush Years 4.8%



Average Annual Poverty Rate:

Clinton Years 13.29%
Bush Years 12.45%



Average Annual Inflation Rate:

Clinton Years 2.60%
Bush Years 2.84%



Average Annual Unemployment Rate:

Clinton Years 5.21%
Bush Years 5.27%



If you only measure the national debt by where it was in the first month of each administration and then in the last month of each administration then yes, you come out with a figure that is favorable to Clinton.

But if you were to examine the entire 8 year term of both presidents during which such numbers can go up and down plenty of times, you find that national debt as a percentage of GDP on average was lower during the Bush years than the Clinton years!

The Average National Federal Debt as a percentage of GDP:

Clinton Years 64.5%
Bush Years 63.0%
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Old 09-17-2009, 01:55 PM   #723
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i mean, really.

get the government OUT OF MY LIFE, except when i want to get somewhere.
There's a reason they don't believe in evolution, because many of them have not evolved yet.
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Old 09-18-2009, 04:18 AM   #724
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A thing of beauty:

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Old 09-18-2009, 07:48 AM   #725
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I was talking to my husband last night and called the protesters "tea baggers" instead of "tea partiers." I didn't even notice it until he pointed it out.

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Old 09-18-2009, 08:30 AM   #726
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A thing of beauty:

It's like a new game, instead of trying to find Waldo you find the one truly informed conservative.
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Old 09-18-2009, 10:20 AM   #727
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A thing of beauty:




yes, there were about 10-15,000 protesters. that's about a tenth the size of your average anti-war protest back in 2002-6.

not the 2m that Michelle Malkin blatantly lied about.

i also wonder if she thought that the protesters last weekend were just throwing tantrums, because that's what she said about anti-war protesters.

at least the anti-war crowd had a policy to protest. the teabaggers just have a black man.
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Old 09-19-2009, 12:40 PM   #728
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i agree with this:



Quote:
Play the Race Card
Why avoiding the issue doesn't help.

By Raina Kelley | NEWSWEEK

Published Sep 19, 2009

From the magazine issue dated Sep 28, 2009

Let me say this clearly so there are no misunderstandings: some of the protests against President Obama are howls of rage at the fact that we have an African-American head of state. I'm sick of all the code words used when this subject comes up, so be assured that I am saying exactly what I mean. Oh, and in response to the inevitable complaints that I am playing the race card—race isn't a political parlor game. It is a powerful fault line in a nation that bears the scars of slavery, a civil war, Jim Crow, a mind-numbing number of assassinations, and too many riots to count. It is naive and disingenuous to say otherwise.

So when Idaho gubernatorial candidate Rex Rammell jokes about hunting the president or South Carolina GOP activist Rusty DePass calls an escaped gorilla one of Michelle Obama's ancestors, it's racist. Which, in case of confusion, is the "ideology that all members of each racial group possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another racial group." (That's from the Oxford English Dictionary, but leave the Brits out of this.) When "Tea Party" leader Mark Williams ap-pears on CNN and speaks of "working-class people" taking "their" country back from a lawfully elected president, he is not just protesting Obama's politics; he is griping over the fact that this country's most powerful positions are no longer just for white men. No, I do not believe that everyone who disagrees with Obama is racist. But racists do exist in this country, and they don't like having a black president.

Did anyone think it would be otherwise? There were always going to be aftershocks in an Obama presidency. Landmark events that change the paradigm between black and white people don't happen without repercussions—some are still complaining about Brown v. Board of Education. Black skin has meant something very specific in this country for hundreds of years. It has meant "less than," "not as good as," "separate than," and even "equal to." It has never meant "better than" unless you were talking about dancing, singing, or basketball. Obama represents "better than," and that's scary for people who think of black people as shaved gorillas.

So color me a little offended when the "mainstream media" suddenly discovered that there might be a racial element to the attacks on Obama. Maureen Dowd's Sept. 13 column in The New York Times is a perfect example: "I've been loath to admit that the shrieking lunacy of the summer—the frantic efforts to paint our first black president as the Other, a foreigner, socialist, fascist, Marxist, racist, Commie, Nazi; a cad who would snuff old people; a snake who would indoctrinate kids—had much to do with race." But at least she did acknowledge it. A Times piece just a day earlier explained why Obama is so unpopular in Louisiana and somehow managed to omit race as a factor. It took 20 paragraphs for a Politico column titled "What's the Matter With South Carolina?" to mention race. This hesitancy to even speak of racism widens the divide between readers and the journalists who are supposed to be covering the world as it is, not as they want it to be. It also explains, at least in part, the popularity of alternative news sources like The Daily Show or the Huffington Post that love to identify racist double-talk.

I had actually been looking forward to the aftershocks of an Obama victory. Maybe I'm the one who's naive, but I thought of the election of the first African-American president as the ultimate teachable moment. I wasn't expecting a holiday. But almost anything, really, would be better than all this "post-racial" and "Kumbaya" crap we're being pedaled. Even though Oprah and Will Smith are beloved by Americans of all hues, they are still exceptions in a country where judging people based on the color of their skin is a habit we've yet to break.

I get it. Race issues are scary. There are few souls brave enough to say what they think about race relations outside the privacy of their homes or the anonymity of the Internet. But rather than deal with the discomfort of talking about race, we've continued to follow outdated rules about what words can be said by whom or, even worse, to stay silent. As if not speaking of racism will somehow make it go away. Silence, even the well-meaning kind, rarely wins an argument. It just allows the lunatic fringe to fill the vacuum in the public debate. And this reluctance doesn't help the effort to achieve racial equality, it hurts it.

Find this article at Why We Need to Talk About Obama and Racism | Newsweek Newsweek - Raina Kelley | Newsweek.com


but take heart, conservative white people. this was written by an african-american female, who obviously hasn't gotten over it.

so it should be easy to dismiss. after all, African-Americans aren't the best judge of when things are racist or not. they often let being black get in the way of clear thinking.

so let's leave it up to the George Allen's of the world.
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Old 09-19-2009, 01:33 PM   #729
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but take heart, conservative white people.
There's a rumor there might be more than a few independents and moderate Democrats of all colors also against overhauling the best healthcare system in the world.

Quote:
so let's leave it up to the George Allen's of the world.

And who would you champion? The Jesse Jacksons, Jeremiah Wrights, Al Sharptons, Eugene Robinsons and Mike Nifongs of the world?
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Old 09-19-2009, 01:51 PM   #730
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the best healthcare system in the world.
Wow, you say that with a straight face. Impressive!
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Old 09-19-2009, 03:31 PM   #731
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There's a rumor there might be more than a few independents and moderate Democrats of all colors also against overhauling the best healthcare system in the world.

no, not really. sure, a few, but not too many.



Quote:
And who would you champion? The Jesse Jacksons, Jeremiah Wrights, Al Sharptons, Eugene Robinsons and Mike Nifongs of the world?

you're right. they can't be trusted because, as ever, being black gets in the way. i actually revisited the George "Macaca" Allen thread a few weeks ago, and it appears that we can never truly know what's in someone's heart, so if we suspect something might be racist, we should just ask that person: are you a racist?

and if they answer, "no," then, clearly, they're not. we can use all sorts of racial slurs, coded language, and incendiary imagery we want, but if we don't intend for it to be racist, then it isn't.
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Old 09-19-2009, 08:27 PM   #732
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The teabag campaign or whatever it's called is essentially a profoundly anti-democratic movement composed of the more stupid element, and the racist element, of the white working class, but ultimately controlled by the corporatist right, which appears to have as its ultimate aim the unseating of an elected President.

They seem have co-opted a lot of the language and slogans of Ron Paul's Presidential campaign and the related 'Campaign for Liberty', but, to me, they have nothing in common with conservative libertarian principles as I see them.

What, precisely, are the teabaggers protesting against?

My take on is that corporate interests are financing this whole thing as a strategy to take attention from controversy over Wall Street bailouts and the failures and frauds committed by the business elite.

Astute observers will note that the anger over Wall Street bailouts and rewards for failure has now disappeared off the radar screen.

Essentially, it's a co-option of libertarian interests for sinister aims.
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Old 09-19-2009, 08:35 PM   #733
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CBS says it would make the first visit ever by a sitting president to Letterman’s "Late Show." Obama has appeared on Letterman’s show five times before, the last during the campaign in September 2008.

The president is scheduled to visit Sunday morning talk shows this weekend on ABC, CBS, NBC and CNN. That’s a highly unusual schedule, even for a president eager to get his message across throughout the media.

Obama will be the sole guest on Monday’s "Late Show."
YouTube - Chris Wallace commenting on his treatment by the Obama White House
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Old 09-19-2009, 08:39 PM   #734
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There's a rumor there might be more than a few independents and moderate Democrats of all colors also against overhauling the best healthcare system in the world.
Thirty seventh best actually. Still, the US is two places ahead of Cuba and you whupped the Dominican Republic's ass too (Go Team USA!!) Are you proud of that record? That's a Grade C- at best. Your ambitions for your country are clearly very modest.

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems


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And who would you champion? The Jesse Jacksons, Jeremiah Wrights, Al Sharptons, Eugene Robinsons and Mike Nifongs of the world?
Complete non-sequitur. Utter bullshit.
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Old 09-19-2009, 08:47 PM   #735
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yes, there were about 10-15,000 protesters. that's about a tenth the size of your average anti-war protest back in 2002-6

And the anti-war protestors weren't being paid to protest.
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