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Old 09-13-2009, 06:05 PM   #631
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these figures imply that the increase in GDP experienced in the Clinton years was fully 25% higher than that experienced in the Bush years.
Like I said, the only real lead for Clinton over Bush when going over the full 8 years of both administrations.
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Old 09-13-2009, 06:07 PM   #632
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Not a single country even tried to get a resolution passed calling for the withdrawal of coaltion forces when the invasion began, in total contrast to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, or the Russian invasion of Georgia.
Russia acted to protect its people from Georgia militia, financed by neo-cons, launching ethnic cleansing attacks on them. Quite right too. The justification for Russia acting against the Georgian militia was far higher than the US/UK had for invading a sovereign country, violently removing its government, and killing 600,000 civilians.
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Old 09-13-2009, 06:24 PM   #633
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Russia acted to protect its people from Georgia militia, financed by neo-cons, launching ethnic cleansing attacks on them. Quite right too. The justification for Russia acting against the Georgian militia was far higher than the US/UK had for invading a sovereign country, violently removing its government, and killing 600,000 civilians.
LOL, I see you believe Putins Bullshit. There are virtually no ethnic Russians in South Ossetia, but there are ethnic GEORGIANS and OSSETIANS. Every country in the world recognizes that South Ossetia and Abakazia are apart of Georgia. The only country that recognizes these area's as being inedpendent or not apart of Georgia is Russia.

The only people that have been ethnicly cleansed from South Ossetia are GEORGIANS! Are you really going to tell a Georgian whose family has lived in South Ossetia for centurys that they have no right to live there? After all, South Ossetia is apart of Georgia.

The Russians had no justification for invading Georgia and nearly overruning the capital. Russia does not really care about South Ossetia's, except how it can use it as a tool to keep Georgia out of NATO and expand its influence in the region.

The coalition invasion of Iraq on the other hand was authorized by multiple UN resolutions and removed a government that was in violation of 17 UN Security Council Resolutions passed under chapter VII rules of the United Nations. Saddam's regime was guilty of using WMD hundreds of thousands of times, invading and attacking four different countries in the region unprovoked, failing to cooperate with the UN on verifiable disarmament of WMD, just to name a few things.

The two actions are not even remotely comparable in terms of justification.

Although you and many liberals out there would like to believe that 600,000 people have died in Iraq, that is gross and inaccurate over-estimate of the number who have died from a war that became necessary because of one persons regime, SADDAM's.
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Old 09-13-2009, 06:33 PM   #634
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LOL, I see you believe Putins Bullshit. There are virtually no ethnic Russians in South Ossetia, but there are ethnic GEORGIANS and OSSETIANS. Every country in the world recognizes that South Ossetia and Abakazia are apart of Georgia. The only country that recognizes these area's as being inedpendent or not apart of Georgia is Russia.

The only people that have been ethnicly cleansed from South Ossetia are GEORGIANS! Are you really going to tell a Georgian whose family has lived in South Ossetia for centurys that they have no right to live there? After all, South Ossetia is apart of Georgia.

The Russians had no justification for invading Georgia and nearly overruning the capital. Russia does not really care about South Ossetia's, except how it can use it as a tool to keep Georgia out of NATO and expand its influence in the region.

The coalition invasion of Iraq on the other hand was authorized by multiple UN resolutions and removed a government that was in violation of 17 UN Security Council Resolutions passed under chapter VII rules of the United Nations. Saddam's regime was guilty of using WMD hundreds of thousands of times, invading and attacking four different countries in the region unprovoked, failing to cooperate with the UN on verifiable disarmament of WMD, just to name a few things.

The two actions are not even remotely comparable in terms of justification.
You have zero credibility left on issues regarding discussions on military actions and alleged justifications therefore. I find Putin more credible than you, when it comes to down to it. However, I don't need to be a believer in any way in 'Putin's bullshit' to give credibility to what I stated, which is backed well informed sources.

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Although you and many liberals out there would like to believe that 600,000 people have died in Iraq, that is gross and inaccurate over-estimate of the number who have died from a war that became necessary because of one persons regime, SADDAM's.
That is a lie. The estimate is from well sourced independent sources. If anything, it is conservative. Also, your implication that I and other anti-war people would like there to have been a lot of casualties in Iraq in order to vindicate our anti-war stance is utterly offensive. You have hit a new low, with that one.

When did you discover I'm a liberal by the way? I wasn't even aware of it.
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:05 PM   #635
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:15 PM   #636
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See, reveling in ignorance...
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:16 PM   #637
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You have zero credibility left on issues regarding discussions on military actions and alleged justifications therefore. I find Putin more credible than you, when it comes to down to it. However, I don't need to be a believer in any way in 'Putin's bullshit' to give credibility to what I stated, which is backed well informed sources.
Well, how about actually saying something about the issue yourself instead of whining about whether you believe Putin or someone posting at interference.


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That is a lie.
Sorry, its not.

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The estimate is from well sourced independent sources. If anything, it is conservative.
Sorry, but the lancet study is not well sourced. Its an extrapolation of a small pool of actual data. Far more accurate are sources that actually connect the event, actual death, body, and name of the person.

Reminds me of the so called Massacre in Jenin, West Bank. "Sources" claimed hundreds if not thousands murdered by the Israeli Defense Force. After UN experts investigated, they found that only two dozen innocent civilians had been killed, all the result of accidents.

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Also, your implication that I and other anti-war people would like there to have been a lot of casualties in Iraq in order to vindicate our anti-war stance is utterly offensive. You have hit a new low, with that one.
I apologize, but the pushing of such wildly inaccurate numbers at first just seems very suspicious.

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When did you discover I'm a liberal by the way? I wasn't even aware of it.
I did not say YOU were a liberal, just that YOU AND many liberals have used such wild figures before.
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:19 PM   #638
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And now more women around the world will be alive and independent. I know that's not anything you support, diamond, but I do.
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:32 PM   #639
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I apologize
Apology accepted.

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Ibut the pushing of such wildly inaccurate numbers at first just seems very suspicious.
I don't understand or accept for a second why the Lancet would be viewed as a politically motivated source.

If you have better figures, let's see them.


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I did not say YOU were a liberal, just that YOU AND many liberals have used such wild figures before.
Right.
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:45 PM   #640
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And all of their parents are on Medicare.
My 70-something year-old dad told me he didn't want the government in his healthcare. Unfortunately, it seems his old, white man brain is now being heavily influenced by Rush, et al. I am sad.
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:47 PM   #641
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And now more women around the world will be alive and independent. I know that's not anything you support, diamond, but I do.
And again I must agree with Martha. As does my 17-year old daughter. See, there's hope for the future!
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:58 PM   #642
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And now more women around the world will be alive and independent. I know that's not anything you support, diamond, but I do.
And those women are alive because their moms didn't choose to abort them.

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Old 09-13-2009, 08:25 PM   #643
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Like I said, the only real lead for Clinton over Bush when going over the full 8 years of both administrations.
a couple of more to consider

what did the market(dow jones) do from Jan 93 - Jan 01 - Clinton's term

3300 to 10600

vs Jan 01- Jan 09 - Bush years

10600 to 7950


and the national debt?

who did better, Clinton or Bush?


National debt by U.S. presidential terms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 09-13-2009, 08:56 PM   #644
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a couple of more to consider

what did the market(dow jones) do from Jan 93 - Jan 01 - Clinton's term

3300 to 10600

vs Jan 01- Jan 09 - Bush years

10600 to 7950


and the national debt?

who did better, Clinton or Bush?


National debt by U.S. presidential terms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In fairness, I would have to say, again, that assessing the success of Presidencies on the basis of Stock Market indices is a rather blunt instrument - for example Jan 2001 was just after the end of a bull market. The National Debt one is certainly damning especially as regards Bush's tenure.
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:48 PM   #645
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And those women are alive because their moms didn't choose to abort them.
Yep. So they should have no choice?
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