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Old 09-10-2009, 08:49 PM   #571
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The Irish parliamentary system is broadly similar to the UK. Representatives are sometimes asked to leave the Dail for 'unparliamentary language', but it is viewed for the most part as a misdemeanour.

I know what you mean about it being relatively unprecedented by (recent) US standards, but I suspect this veneration of the Sacred Office of POTUS mullarkey is a relatively recent thing - for which the Republicans are largely to blame, ironically.


Yes, a Prime Minister here would take that from their political opposition ten times before breakfast, and they’ll front a proper grilling from the media multiple times in any/every week where there is zero deference to the office. Any policy, any idea, any plan, any controversy - they will get hammered on it from all angles, and they will HAVE to front up to every one of them. I’ve never understood why the US President is so protected, and why the public – on either side – accept everything so ridiculously stage managed.

And just as an aside, the last time I saw someone get into anywhere remotely near this much trouble in Australian Parliament was when a respected elected member got up and gave a little speech, where midway through he slipped in the little fact that he thought that the Prime Minister of the day, who was present, and the Treasurer, also present, were a pair of cunts.
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:54 PM   #572
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More attributes of the new administration:
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Yeah, I think it was Obama in that extremely ridiculous pimp outfit.

What a fucking joke.
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Old 09-10-2009, 09:28 PM   #573
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Questions for Obama supporters:

Could O say do something that would make you stop carrying for him? If so what?

Serious answers only.
He's doing/done a few things that have really pissed me off, but no, nothing that would make me stop supporting him.
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Old 09-10-2009, 09:50 PM   #574
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Regarding the deference to the US President (Presidency?), I think although inflated in recent decades it probably has a long history. You did replace a king with an elected executive, after all. It's that head of state/head of government duality. The prime minister is not, and never can be, the Head of State.

I think the closest parallel with our system would be if Nancy Pelosi was running the country and Obama was opening flower shows.
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Old 09-10-2009, 09:52 PM   #575
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Also a further point of thought: the 20th and 21st century presidency with its vast aura of prestige also has a lot to do with the position's status as civilian commander in chief of the military. America's military excursions have come to shadow the nation's politics to a significant degree, as well, in this period.
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:13 PM   #576
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But c'mon Diemen. You live in a sanctuary city. Not only do you refuse to comply with current federal immigration laws, not only do you not enforce current laws against hiring illegal aliens but you specifically direct law enforcement agencies to not enquire about legal status. So employers and cops don't inquire about citizenship status but with this new law doctors and hospital administrators will? C'mon.


the furor over "illegal immigrants" amounts to about as much as the furor over "tort reform" -- sure, it would be nice to fix these things, and it might be one piece of a very big puzzle, but it's a distraction from the actual, tough issues and amounts to little more than scapegoating.
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:15 PM   #577
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the furor over "illegal immigrants" amounts to about as much as the furor over "tort reform" -- sure, it would be nice to fix these things, and it might be one piece of a very big puzzle, but it's a distraction from the actual, tough issues and amounts to little more than scapegoating.
Exactly. These two issues are part of much bigger issues. Not to be written into healthcare reform.

But what else do we expect?
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:19 PM   #578
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Regarding the deference to the US President (Presidency?), I think although inflated in recent decades it probably has a long history. You did replace a king with an elected executive, after all. It's that head of state/head of government duality. The prime minister is not, and never can be, the Head of State.

I think the closest parallel with our system would be if Nancy Pelosi was running the country and Obama was opening flower shows.



yes, and no. but pretty good for a ferr-in-err.

individuals vote directly for a candidate for president. the president is the head of the executive branch of government, one of three branches -- the other being the legislative (Congress -- divided up into the House of Representatives and the Senate) and the judicial (the Supreme Court). a Prime Minister is not a President, and vice versa.

there has always been a strong sense of decorum and propriety surrounding the presidency, and it's something that i don't think that most other countries have. i believe reporters still stand when he enters the room for example. in contrast, there is debate, argument, etc., on the floor of Congress whenever legislation is being discussed. we do not have a particular "question time" like i've seen (and enjoyed watching) in the UK, and while i think it might not be a bad thing, it's simply not part of tradition or culture.

US presidents go through a grilling -- relatively -- in press conferences (you'll note that Bush had ... what, less than a dozen in 8 years?) and the actual running for president is pretty much 2 years of debates.
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:23 PM   #579
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I'd like to see us adopt Taiwan's lovely tradition of legislators occasionally pounding the shit out of each other.
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:29 PM   #580
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Yeah, I think it was Obama in that extremely ridiculous pimp outfit.

What a fucking joke.
What is a joke? Don't tell me you're denying what is happening in that video as being seriously immoral at best and seriously illegal at worst. And this is the organization that trained our president...
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:29 PM   #581
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Oh yes, Irvine, there are certainly subtleties that my post sort of glosses over. Our two systems both bear traces of their British origins however. We have state governors too, but they are ceremonial as opposed to political offices.

Were we to jettison the monarchy, our ceremonial national head of state - the Governor General - would likely morph into some kind of elected presidency... albeit probably with little to no executive powers. Those executive powers and where they reside are the key point of difference, as I see it.
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:49 PM   #582
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What is a joke? Don't tell me you're denying what is happening in that video as being seriously immoral at best and seriously illegal at worst. And this is the organization that trained our president...
My point is how is this an attribute of this administration?

Is this an isolated incident? How many times did they get laughed at?

Is it completely staged(I'm sorry but the pimp and prostitute weren't convincing)?

Acorn trained Obama?

Look, if it's true, these individuals need to be investigated. If there are other cases, I want proof.

Right now, it's just a joke to make such connections. Would your college professor allow such a correlation? If he/she does, they should be fired.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:20 PM   #583
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But c'mon Diemen. You live in a sanctuary city. Not only do you refuse to comply with current federal immigration laws, not only do you not enforce current laws against hiring illegal aliens but you specifically direct law enforcement agencies to not enquire about legal status. So employers and cops don't inquire about citizenship status but with this new law doctors and hospital administrators will? C'mon.
Interesting. I wasn't aware that living in a city automatically puts you in agreement with that city's administration.

Never mind that I don't actually live in San Francisco.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:25 PM   #584
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What is a joke? Don't tell me you're denying what is happening in that video as being seriously immoral at best and seriously illegal at worst. And this is the organization that trained our president...
sleight of hand arguments aren't worth pursuing.

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Old 09-10-2009, 11:27 PM   #585
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Acorn trained Obama?

Look, if it's true, these individuals need to be investigated. If there are other cases, I want proof.

.
The two working for Acorn in the video have been fired.

Obama and Acorn are two peas in a pod.

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