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Old 08-23-2009, 09:38 PM   #331
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I am starting to think - and I used to be very sceptical of this thesis - that a fair proportion of the criticisms directed at Obama are fundamentally based on racist bias.

I don't understand how it is remotely possible to complain about the deficit that Obama 'created', when anyone with an ounce of commonsense knows it was largely the fault of the previous administration.

There's certainly a lot of legitimate critiques that can be made of Obama, but creating the deficit isn't one of them.
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:42 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by Bluer White View Post
Obama to raise 10-year deficit to $9 trillion | U.S. | Reuters




Well, the White House was only off by 28% on their deficit.

Our foreign debt holders must be thrilled.
I haven't see a word from you before about the deficit. I didn't see a word from you about the deficit during the Bush years.

I've been trying to warn anyone that will listen for years now about the exanding government. That's why I tried to advocate for Ron Paul's campaign on FYM. It's 'cos real conservatives are - I'd like to think - consistent. I don't want to be harsh on you, as I don't think you're a complete Kool Aid drinking neo-con, but it's really a bit late in the day for neo-cons to join the limited government party. Where were you lot in 2000-2008?

As for the foreign debt holders, they weren't thrilled in 2006/07 either.
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Old 08-23-2009, 10:58 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by financeguy View Post

I don't understand how it is remotely possible to complain about the deficit that Obama 'created', when anyone with an ounce of commonsense knows it was largely the fault of the previous administration.

There's certainly a lot of legitimate critiques that can be made of Obama, but creating the deficit isn't one of them.
No, Obama didn't "create" the deficit, and I don't hear anyone on the conservative side saying that. Bush absolutely created the deficit. What I do hear legitimate criticism of, and rightfully so, is the great extent to which Obama has increased the deficit, and the fact that he has spent more money than anyone in history, and in such a short amount of time, no less.

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I am starting to think - and I used to be very sceptical of this thesis - that a fair proportion of the criticisms directed at Obama are fundamentally based on racist bias.
You sure you want to go down this path? Because the people making this argument only seem to end up looking like fools, using the race card themselves. Did you hear what David Patterson said the other day?
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Old 08-23-2009, 11:32 PM   #334
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I am starting to think - and I used to be very sceptical of this thesis - that a fair proportion of the criticisms directed at Obama are fundamentally based on racist bias.

I don't understand how it is remotely possible to complain about the deficit that Obama 'created', when anyone with an ounce of commonsense knows it was largely the fault of the previous administration.

There's certainly a lot of legitimate critiques that can be made of Obama, but creating the deficit isn't one of them.



3rd post this week i've agreed with.
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Old 08-24-2009, 02:40 AM   #335
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I see Obama doing quite a few things that piss off the ultra Liberals, I'm starting to like him more and more.
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Old 08-24-2009, 08:50 AM   #336
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No, Obama didn't "create" the deficit, and I don't hear anyone on the conservative side saying that.
Maybe you are not listening close enough...


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You sure you want to go down this path? Because the people making this argument only seem to end up looking like fools, using the race card themselves.
Do you honestly believe race isn't a factor? Do you not remember the tea partier's signs about "go back to Africa", Rush's "magic negro", your own use of the race card?

It's A LOT bigger than your 1% prediction, I think maybe you are so use to it that you don't recognize it...
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Old 08-24-2009, 09:36 AM   #337
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Maybe you are not listening close enough...
Give me one person who is saying that there was a budget surplus when Bush left office.

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Do you honestly believe race isn't a factor? Do you not remember the tea partier's signs about "go back to Africa", Rush's "magic negro", your own use of the race card?

It's A LOT bigger than your 1% prediction, I think maybe you are so use to it that you don't recognize it...
When did I use the race card? I'll ask you, then- do you think my dislike of Obama has anything to do with the color of his skin?

The "go back to Africa" signs (if any) are not representative of how conservatives feel. Were liberals who called Bush Hitler and a terrorist representative of liberals? Because it's the exact same thing. The race card has been used ten times as much in the Democratic Party. Did you hear what David Patterson said?
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Old 08-24-2009, 09:54 AM   #338
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Give me one person who is saying that there was a budget surplus when Bush left office.
Not what I said... Maybe the reason you reworded the premise is that you know there are folks out there saying Obama created this deficit? cough cough Hannity


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When did I use the race card? I'll ask you, then- do you think my dislike of Obama has anything to do with the color of his skin?
I've shown you a couple of times how you were the very first poster to mention race in here when Obama was running for president. But, no I do not think your dislike has to do with the color of his skin...


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Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
The "go back to Africa" signs (if any) are not representative of how conservatives feel. Were liberals who called Bush Hitler and a terrorist representative of liberals? Because it's the exact same thing. The race card has been used ten times as much in the Democratic Party. Did you hear what David Patterson said?
If any? Come on, we showed you plenty of those signs. Of course they are not representative of all conservatives, but they are a very vocal part right now, which is very unfortunate.

I do think race plays a part, like I said earlier, I know for a fact that there are a lot of conservatives that fear they are losing their status quo, and they would not be protesting if it was McCain pushing for healthcare reform. I honestly think most conservatives do not understand the arguments against healthcare reform, in fact they secretly know it needs to occur but are just towing the party line. I think most would be cheering if it was McCain doing this. This is why there is no real strong argument against.

Now that being said, I do think some cry out "racism" all too often and when not warranted.

No, I did not hear what David said.
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Old 08-24-2009, 09:59 AM   #339
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I believe Gov Patterson said that people are being more critical of him, and Deval Patrick, just because they are African American-that they still have a more difficult time in high positions in politics. That's just general paraphrasing, I can't remember exactly what he said.

People are critical of Deval Patrick because he has done a very poor job (in my opinion he has and the polls suggest that many people have that opinion)-it has zero to do with his skin color, other than for racists. I don't know about Gov Patterson, I don't follow what he does but I imagine it could be the same for him.
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Old 08-24-2009, 10:23 AM   #340
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It's worse than that-he says it's some sort of racially motivated plot

Paterson Accuses Media Critics of Racism in Trying to Push Him Out - Gothamist

For whatever the NY Post is worth..

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08232009...ard_186100.htm
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Old 08-24-2009, 10:36 AM   #341
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Idiots come in all shapes, races, and political parties
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Old 08-24-2009, 04:01 PM   #342
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an interesting op-ed by a conservative:



Quote:
Don’t Blame Obama
By ROSS DOUTHAT

Throughout the 2008 campaign, Barack Obama’s most loyal constituencies were the national press corps and the left wing of the Democratic Party.

Those on the left loved him because they thought he was one of them. They tolerated all the happy talk about bipartisanship because they were sure that deep in his community-organizing heart Obama shared their premises, their passions and their goals.

The media loved him because he was a great story and a great campaigner. The press favors dreamy liberals, but it worships success, and Obama was the best of both worlds — a soaring rhetorician with a ruthlessly competent political machine.

But now both groups are turning on him. As the health care debate enters its decisive weeks, the left doubts President Obama’s commitment, and the press doubts his competence.

For MSNBC-watching, Huffington Post-devouring liberals, the administration’s fancy footwork on a public health care plan (maybe it’s out, maybe it’s in, but either way it’s negotiable) is just the latest example of the president’s unseemly unwillingness to steamroll the opposition. He has been too solicitous to Republicans, too hands-off with Democrats, too detached and technocratic — even as a once-in-a-generation opportunity is passing liberalism by.

Where the left sees betrayal, the press sees ham-fistedness. The White House’s messages have been mixed — fiscal hawkery one day, moralism the next. The administration has allowed distractions like the Skip Gates affair to crowd out his agenda. It has overlearned the lessons of the Clinton-care debacle and given Congress too much leeway. It has underlearned the lessons of the Bush-era Social Security debacle and gone to war before there’s an actual piece of legislation on the table.

Some of this is true — but some of it is overstated. And at its worst, it’s an example of the bipartisan derangement that Gene Healy of the Cato Institute has dubbed “the cult of the presidency.”

To the disciples of this cult, the president is the government. “He is a soul nourisher,” Healy writes, “a hope giver, a living American talisman against hurricanes, terrorism, economic downturns and spiritual malaise.” Anything that happens on his watch happens because of him. And just as important, anything that doesn’t happen can be pinned entirely on his mistakes.

President Obama has been turning these quasi-messianic expectations to his advantage since he first entered national politics. But that doesn’t make them any less unrealistic.

To listen to the chatter about where his administration has gone wrong, you would think that the rest of the Democratic Party had no agency — that Democratic office-holders are slaves to poll numbers that only the White House can control, and that the way a Max Baucus, a Ben Nelson or a Blanche Lincoln votes is entirely determined by whether the president of the United States twists the right arms and hits the right rhetorical notes.

In reality, the health care wrestling match is less a test of Mr. Obama’s political genius than it is a test of the Democratic Party’s ability to govern. This is not the Reagan era, when power in Washington was divided, and every important vote required the president to leverage his popularity to build trans-party coalitions. Fox News and Sarah Palin have soapboxes, but they don’t have veto power. Mr. Obama could be a cipher, a nonentity, a Millard Fillmore or a Franklin Pierce, and his party would still have the power to pass sweeping legislation without a single Republican vote.

What’s more, health care reform is the Democratic Party’s signature issue. Its wonks have thought longer and harder about it than any other topic. Its politicians are vastly better at talking about the subject than Republicans: if an election is fought over health care, bet on the Democrat every time. And for all the complexity involved, it’s arguably easier to tackle than other liberal priorities. It’s more popular than cap and trade, it’s less likely to split the party than immigration and it’s more amenable to technocratic interventions than income inequality.

If the Congressional Democrats can’t get a health care package through, it won’t prove that President Obama is a sellout or an incompetent. It will prove that Congress’s liberal leaders are lousy tacticians, and that its centrist deal-makers are deal-makers first, poll watchers second and loyal Democrats a distant third. And it will prove that the Democratic Party is institutionally incapable of delivering on its most significant promises.

You have to assume that on some level Congress understands this — which is why you also have to assume that some kind of legislation will eventually pass.

If it doesn’t, President Obama will have been defeated. But it’s the party, not the president, that will have failed.
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Old 08-24-2009, 04:04 PM   #343
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When did I use the race card? I'll ask you, then- do you think my dislike of Obama has anything to do with the color of his skin?


do you think that there are people -- possibly even conservatives -- who don't like Obama because of his skin color?

do you think that there are people -- possibly even conservatives -- who have a set of expectations that may or not be conscious in regards to race that come in to play when they think about a black president?

do you think that african-american politicians -- possibly even conservatives -- are measured by different standards and have to deal with different expectations than would a white politician?

do you think that most of society is not as fearlessly colorblind and filled with racial integrity as you claim to be and that, maybe, race has just a little bit to do in the unfolding narrative of the Obama presidency?
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Old 08-24-2009, 06:35 PM   #344
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The answer to your questions is 'yes.'

How did he ever win the election ???
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Old 08-24-2009, 07:04 PM   #345
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How did he ever win the election ???

magic.
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