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Old 08-12-2009, 12:17 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by zooropop40 View Post
...and the people who are saying: "Government- get your hands off my Medicaid!"
An important editorial:

Wonkette : Important Editorial: If Stephen Hawking Lived In The U.K., He Would Be Dead
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Old 08-12-2009, 12:25 AM   #212
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I have always thought the left and centre in the US gives away too much ground from the get go by even allowing public funding for healthcare to be termed 'socialised healthcare', because it sounds like socialism, which is de facto 'A Bad Thing' (TM). I mean, no-one talks about 'socialised transport care'.

I take it these right wingers are consistent and want to tear up the publicly funded highways and tear down all the town halls, etc? In order to remain morally pure, America must surely immediately do so, and allow the innovative and resourceful free marketers to take over (for example) road and public transport entirely. Any water and other public utilities must immediately be stopped as this is another form of creeping communism. There may be some short term problems with water supplies being cut off and citizens rioting but the great, all knowing free market will solve this with no difficulty. Indeed, in many countries around the world, such as Somalia, such a free market system has been proven to show great benefits.

Of course, if we are to be consistent, the free marketers must compensate the government at a fair market value for any roads, public utilities, etc, that they take over, which I'd imagine would prove a difficult economic model to justify. I'd like those against public healthcare to show me how they are going to make their privatised transport care system work. And privatised military and police forces for that matter. Why not privatise the judiciary while where at it, I'm fed up of these communist judges taking OUR MONEY.

A narrative that might work better from the advocates of pubicly funded healthcare is to point out that physicians working in the private healthcare system in US are among the highest paid (the highest paid full stop?) in the world, so whither the argument of the government trying to take our money, increase our taxes, and subject us to a socialised bureaucracy of highly paid government workers (Communist Nazis!!)?
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Old 08-12-2009, 12:28 AM   #213
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Watching these people yell and scream at these congressional Town Hall meetings and listening to Hannity, Glenn Beck and the like

it is very easy to hear what they are really saying.



Just cut and paste it in

www.babelbullshittranslator.com

it always translates to something like:

"I am so fucking angry there is a Negro in the Whitehouse. I swear I'm gonna lose it."
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Old 08-12-2009, 12:29 AM   #214
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haha.

I cant believe people dont realize that Stephen Hawkings lives in the UK and receives UK medical treatment.

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Old 08-12-2009, 12:30 AM   #215
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are you sure about that?

I always see him on American T V. (I never see him on my BBC channel)
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Old 08-12-2009, 12:31 AM   #216
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are you sure about that?

I always see him on American T V.
yes.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:02 AM   #217
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lets be fair, "right wingers" arent the ONLY ones out there at these meetings protesting.

i think it's good people are getting together and yelling and stirring shit with these politicians. maybe they'll finally get the message that the people are pissed off and we arent going to take their bullshit anymore.
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Old 08-12-2009, 09:53 AM   #218
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lets be fair, "right wingers" arent the ONLY ones out there at these meetings protesting.

i think it's good people are getting together and yelling and stirring shit with these politicians. maybe they'll finally get the message that the people are pissed off and we arent going to take their bullshit anymore.
I don't know...

Yes, there are those pissed off on all sides(when is that not the case?); he hasn't done enough for gay rights, Gitmo isn't shut down yet, he's a socialist, he's black, he's going to take my gun, etc etc etc...

But the only people I've seen at these paticular protests are the tea party, AM radio is where I get my news crowd. The more I listen and watch them the more I actually start to feel sorry for them, so I won't say anymore.
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Old 08-12-2009, 10:08 AM   #219
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U.S. Militia Groups Growing

some pretty interesting comments on the bottom
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Old 08-12-2009, 10:38 AM   #220
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U.S. Militia Groups Growing

some pretty interesting comments on the bottom
Interesting and scary all at the same time...
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Old 08-12-2009, 10:52 AM   #221
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how far do you think the government would have to go for these "milita" groups to be legitimate?
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:01 AM   #222
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some pretty interesting comments on the bottom
Not that different to what you'd get with any other story on the AOL site.
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:03 AM   #223
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Not that different to what you'd get with any other story on the AOL site.
true

i found some of the more intelligent comments interesting, the ones talking about trying to link these "militia" groups to terrorism.

i believe there are 2 types of these "milita" groups:

1. the ones that are legitimately against big government, excessive taxes, eroding of freedom and civil rights, etc regardless of who is president.
2. the ones that just hate obama, dont really have a stance other than the liberals, socialists, democrats, etc are the enemy.

obviously the 1st will probably dislike Obama, but more for his policies, rather than he is black and a democrat.
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:15 AM   #224
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how far do you think the government would have to go for these "milita" groups to be legitimate?
To the point where there were no other means. If rights were truly taken away and your vote didn't matter... Then at least they would be somewhat legitimate but not useful. I think true massive protests, not just fringe groups would have to be tried and failed in order to ever make these groups legitimate, therefore, almost never.

They are fringe quacks, nothing more, nothing less at this point.
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:15 AM   #225
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Obama is the first president ever to do this. The IRS is now going to go after rich people with Swiss bank accounts and has a deal where the Swiss rat them out. I think this is terrible, since they put their money there believing they'd be safe. It should be 'grandfathered' and just stop new ones, though if I got rich I'd want to hide it there too. It's rude to change the rules and then go after them now because some may owe for many years. It's a dirty trick because they were led to believe their accounts were private.

US, Swiss cement deal on secret UBS bank accounts - Yahoo! News

US, Swiss cement deal on secret UBS bank accounts

By JESSICA GRESKO, Associated Press Writer Jessica Gresko, Associated Press Writer – 16 mins ago

MIAMI – The U.S. government and Swiss banking giant UBS AG have reached an agreement in a case seeking names of some 52,000 suspected American tax evaders with billions in secret Swiss accounts, but details may remain under wraps until next week, officials said.

Lawyers for the government and UBS told a federal judge in a brief conference call they had initialed a deal after a delay last week to settle undisclosed details.

The Internal Revenue Service, which initiated the case against UBS earlier this year, said in a statement the deal "protects the United States government's interests." But the two-sentence statement from IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman added only that more details will be released when the Swiss government signs the agreement as early as next week.

The IRS earlier this year asked U.S. District Judge Alan S. Gold in Miami to force Zurich-based UBS to turn over names of some 52,000 American clients believed to be hiding nearly $15 billion in assets in secret accounts.

UBS and the Swiss government had resisted, arguing that to do so would violate Swiss banking confidentiality laws that date back centuries.

The Swiss and U.S. governments announced at the end of July they had agreed in principle on major issues but released no details. They had hoped to present a final deal at a hearing Aug. 7, but resolving their differences has taken longer.

At the latest hearing Wednesday, the judge asked Stuart Gibson, the lead Justice Department lawyer in the case, whether an agreement had been reached.

"The answer is 'yes,' your honor," Gibson answered. "The parties have initialed agreements. It will take a little time for the agreements to be signed in final form."

An attorney for UBS, Eugene Stearns, thanked the judge for allowing the case to be brought to what he called a "successful conclusion."

The phone conference lasted less than three minutes.

UBS paid a $780 million penalty earlier this year and turned over names of about 300 American clients in a deferred prosecution agreement with the Justice Department. In that case, UBS admitted helping U.S. citizens evade taxes, which experts say is not a violation of Swiss bank secrecy laws.

So far, three UBS customers whose names were divulged under the prior agreement have pleaded guilty to tax charges in federal court. Hundreds of others holders of secret accounts at UBS and other Swiss banks have voluntarily come forward to the IRS under an amnesty program that requires payment of taxes and penalties but generally does not include the threat of prison.

That amnesty program ends Sept. 23.

New York-listed shares in UBS were trading 2 percent higher at $15.
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