Obama General Discussion II

[Moonlit_Angel]

So, Liberman and Brown are coming out swinging and being all smart and voting well, while McCain drifts deeper into a grumpy old man persona that feels the need to rail against everything.

*Checks outside to see if the world is starting to turn upside down*

Angela

 

[Irvine511]

Damn...

i know, right? wow.

something's going on with Lieberman -- i know that his camp was worried that they'd be thrown under the bus it somehow it boiled down to DADT vs. START, but now that they've got one, perhaps he's doing what he can for Obama on the other. and smart move by Obama to bring Joe back into the fold rather than isolate him after he campaigned for Grandpa Walnuts in 2008.

 

[adam4bono]

yes, because, historically, the minority party in the Senate has always used the filibuster in the way that it has the past 2 years.

Well, they barely had even enough people to have a filibuster. Most other presidents would have pushed by easily with those ratio's in congress.

 

[Irvine511]

Well, they barely had even enough people to have a filibuster. Most other presidents would have pushed by easily with those ratio's in congress.

this is very lazy.

most other presidents haven't faced an opposition that has marched in such lock-step, most other presidents haven't faced such a nakedly partisan environment where the opposition's stated goal has been to resist the president regardless of whether or not it's good for the country.

 

[kramwest1]

Well, they barely had even enough people to have a filibuster. Most other presidents would have pushed by easily with those ratio's in congress.

It only takes one senator to filibuster, but (I believe) it takes 60 or 61 senate votes to end the filibuster.

This rule is established with the swearing-in and adopting of procedures at the beginning of each term of the senate. So, many are calling for a change in the rule.

And, I agree. The filibuster has been abused.

 

[Popmartijn]

And, I agree. The filibuster has been abused.

Say what?

The Republicans have been using the filibuster to block even routine motions to begin debate, which has angered many Democratic senators. In the current (111th) Senate, there have been over 100 filibusters, compared to 27 filibusters in the period 1919 to 1960, which comes up to fewer than 1 per year, so the rate for this Senate is 100x the average for the first half of the 20th century. In the entire 19th century there were about 20 filibusters, roughly one every five years. In other words, the filibuster has historically been used only for very, very major battles, of which the debates over slavery, secession, and reconstruction weren't even important enough.

(from Electoral-vote.com: Election news )

 

[kramwest1]

It only takes one senator to filibuster, but (I believe) it takes 60 or 61 senate votes to end the filibuster.

This rule is established with the swearing-in and adopting of procedures at the beginning of each term of the senate. So, many are calling for a change in the rule.

And, I agree. The filibuster has been abused.

Say what?

I should have been more clear: I agree the rule should be changed. It's not w/o controversy; there are a lot of Democrats weary of changing the rule because they feel it will protect them if/when they are the minority in the senate.


There is no doubt, the filibuster has been abused.

 

[Irvine511]

There is no doubt, the filibuster has been abused.

i blame Obama. if he didn't try to do things against the Constitution like make health care affordable or try and prevent nuclear annihilation or give straights the right to get ogled by gays in military showers or thank the first responders to 9-11 by taking care of their health then the GOP wouldn't be forced to filibuster like they have.



also, rumors that Mike Rogers is going to out Lindsey Graham for being such a dick about DADT.

 

[BVS]

Well, they barely had even enough people to have a filibuster.

WTF

 

[Irvine511]

filibustering only works if all 40 filibuster at exactly the same time!

 

[BVS]

Like a choir?

 

[deep]

Obama will be having a better Christmas than John McCain, Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, of Kentucky, and Jon Kyl of Arizona

New START passes hurdle in Senate
Los Angeles Times | December 21, 2010 | 12:39 p.m.


The strategic nuclear arms treaty passed a key procedural hurdle today when the Senate voted to bring New START, the weapons pact between the United States and Russia, to the floor of the Senate for a final vote.


The Senate voted 67-28 to pass a cloture motion, enough to assure final ratification of the pact.
Ratification will give the Obama administration its top foreign policy goal
in the lame-duck session.


Throughout the day, GOP senators lined up to explain why they were ready to vote for the treaty, which had been opposed by top Republicans, including Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, of Kentucky, and Jon Kyl of Arizona.

 

[kramwest1]

Obama will be having a better Christmas than John McCain, Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, of Kentucky, and Jon Kyl of Arizona

He should. I wish I was vacationing in a sunny, tropical foreign country for Christmas.

The 2010 Obama Hawaii Vacation

 

[Irvine511]

not to put a jinx on it ... but with "the deal" -- which is now really liked by moderates and independents -- along with DADT -- which makes the liberal base feel a bit better -- as well as likely START -- which everyone wants -- Obama seems to be the rare democrat who can actually deliver with 3 big wins in the face of Nov losses.

usually, Democrats are renowned for their ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Wow. Look at you, Obama and the Democrats, getting some big stuff passed there. I'm impressed .

Angela

 

[deep]

Hopefully the 67 votes will go up a bit.

Some GOP Senators should be able to say they wanted to amend/ improve it a bit.
But, in its present form it is still better than no treaty.

 

[deep]

Senate approves New START treaty
Los Angeles Times | December 22, 2010 | 12:06 p.m.

The Senate ratified the strategic nuclear arms treaty between the United States and Russia today, fulfilling President Obama's major foreign policy goal for the lame-duck session.

By a 71-26 vote, the Senate approved the treaty,
known as New START, which Republicans had blocked. Ratification required 67 votes. Passage seemed assured on Tuesday when 11 Republicans joined 56 Democrats to vote for cloture on the measure.

Under the treaty, Russia and the United States agree to limit the number of nuclear warheads to 1,550 each, down from the ceiling of 2,200. The pact also establishes a system for monitoring and verification. The treaty was signed by Obama and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev on April 8.

.

 

[Irvine511]

and they got the 9-11 responders bill through. which is a bit like saying, "okay, we'll stop clubbing puppies."

 

[deep]

that is good

I don't recall if that was an Obama priority.

 

[corianderstem]

and they got the 9-11 responders bill through.

Good.

 

[adam4bono]

WTF

Well, the opposition can shut you down with just 60 votes, so you need at least 41 members of the senate to keep it going against the opposition. The Republicans currently control 42 seats in the US Senate, but that number will go up some in January 2011 when the newly elected Senators officially come into office.

 

[adam4bono]

this is very lazy.

most other presidents haven't faced an opposition that has marched in such lock-step, most other presidents haven't faced such a nakedly partisan environment where the opposition's stated goal has been to resist the president regardless of whether or not it's good for the country.

Its not lazy, its true. As of right now, the Republicans only hold 42 seats in the Senate. The Democrats could fly right by any filibuster attempt by just picking up two Republicans.

I think President Bill Clinton would say that he faced a very partisan environment with the impeachment and attempt to remove him from office.

No matter how you slice it, Obama has been lucky to have the ratio's in congress that he has had the past two years and its his and the democratic parties falt for being unable to pick up just two Republicans out of 42 to get past a filibuster.

 

[adam4bono]

or try and prevent nuclear annihilation

The Start treaty is a good thing, but lets not get carried away here. Were going down from 2,200 warheads to 1,550 warheads that are "active". There are still over 5,000 warheads on each side that are not active and are essentially just sitting on the shelf and have not been disposed of yet.

 

[anitram]

No matter how you slice it, Obama has been lucky to have the ratio's in congress that he has had the past two years and its his and the democratic parties falt for being unable to pick up just two Republicans out of 42 to get past a filibuster.

Yeah, it's his fault that all of them have stuck their fingers in their ears and are screaming "we're not listening, nyah!"

These are the people who up until this morning were blocking healthcare for 9/11 responders, and would have continued to do so were they not utterly shame by even FOX News for heaven's sake. THAT is what we're dealing with here.

 

[BVS]

Well, the opposition can shut you down with just 60 votes, so you need at least 41 members of the senate to keep it going against the opposition. The Republicans currently control 42 seats in the US Senate, but that number will go up some in January 2011 when the newly elected Senators officially come into office.

That's not what you said.

by just picking up two Republicans.

Oh, that's all? Only pick up two from the party of no? From the party that up until today turned their backs upon those they have exploited for years?

Is that all?

When you're dealing with children turning two into grown ups is very difficult.

 

[adam4bono]

Yeah, it's his fault that all of them have stuck their fingers in their ears and are screaming "we're not listening, nyah!"

These are the people who up until this morning were blocking healthcare for 9/11 responders, and would have continued to do so were they not utterly shame by even FOX News for heaven's sake. THAT is what we're dealing with here.

Hey, even a marginal leader could pick up two votes.

 

[adam4bono]

That's not what you said.

So sorry it was not clear enough the first time. Is it better now?

Oh, that's all? Only pick up two from the party of no? From the party that up until today turned their backs upon those they have exploited for years?

Is that all?

When you're dealing with children turning two into grown ups is very difficult.

Well, most Presidents would not have any problem with a 58 to 42 ratio in the Senate. I guess you could also say that if one knows how to lead and is not a child, they would easily be able to pick up 2 people out of 42.

 

[adam4bono]

Yeah, it's his fault that all of them have stuck their fingers in their ears and are screaming "we're not listening, nyah!"

These are the people who up until this morning were blocking healthcare for 9/11 responders, and would have continued to do so were they not utterly shame by even FOX News for heaven's sake. THAT is what we're dealing with here.

You only need to get 2 people out of 42. There are not a lot of legit excuses for being incapable of doing that.

 

[BVS]

Well, most Presidents would not have any problem with a 58 to 42 ratio in the Senate. I guess you could also say that if one knows how to lead and is not a child, they would easily be able to pick up 2 people out of 42.

Take a look at how many times they used it compared to the decades past.

We are not dealing with reasonable men and women.

 

[adam4bono]

Take a look at how many times they used it compared to the decades past.

We are not dealing with reasonable men and women.

A lot of these men and women in the Senate are the same men and women that were there in the 1990s and 1980s. You only need to get two of them to get by any filibuster.