Obama General Discussion II

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hbAkZ8sU2M

President Obama was hearing an earful from voters at a town hall meeting in the nation’s capitol yesterday.

Anger and disappointment was voiced by many in attendance, including Velma Hart, Chief Financial Officer for “American Vets” and Ted Brassfield, a law school grad. Hart and Brassfield spoke with CNN's Kiran Chetry on "American Morning's" about their feelings on Obama and clarified some of their statements from the town hall.

Kiran Chetry: Velma, when you said you were getting tired of defending the president, it's exhausting. Have you lost faith in the president? Or do you think it's simply the circumstances we're in that he doesn't necessarily have control of.

Velma Hart: It is absolutely the latter. But I don't know that he doesn't have control of it. I still have great faith in this president. I think that he is an amazing leader. I think he is inspirational.

Kiran Chetry: Ted, you asked whether or not you thought the "American Dream" was still attainable. Why did you choose that question? I know that you had a lot on your mind. You had a lot that you discussed among your friends. Why did you ask about the "American Dream?"

Ted Brassfield: Well, it's a real problem that a lot of us who have advanced degrees - and people who are going to college, maybe they don't know why they went to college. But we are facing massive student loans. The entire generation is just often facing six figures even when you go to public universities. And you have people like me who had good jobs but went back to school. Society says if you work hard, if you go to school, we will have good jobs for you. And that's why it's - you're willing to take on a massive amount of debt. And it seems like that's been lost. And it's really hurting a lot of my cohort.

Kiran Chetry: Did you get the answer you were looking for from the president or any more clarity on it?

Ted Brassfield: I think that unfortunately I felt that the president answered very effectively all of the other questions he was asked by the audience. But like Velma, I thought that I had given him a lay-up to say this is why you should still have hope. And he didn't say that. He didn't answer it at all.

Kiran Chetry: Well, Velma, you said you're exhausted defending him. What do people who have criticisms of the president that talk to you say? What are their biggest beefs?

Velma Hart: That he's all talk and no action, which I absolutely disagree with. I think the health care reform bill is action. I think the student loan legislation is action. I think there are - even, you know, like it or hate it, even the financial reform is action. So I don't get that argument. And I - and I get pretty passionate about it. I can't tell you I stand on top of tables and, you know, bang my head against the wall, but I believe in him. And I - you know, there's something about what he communicates that makes me believe that he's got a plan. I just - I’m tired of having debate - I think this is a moment of poker or something for me, maybe blackjack or 21. I want to have a card on the table that shuts the discussion and I don't have that yet.
 
I saw that bit on TV. I fully agree with and understand the concerns those people brought up, and admire them for doing so in a reasonable, mature way. I guess my question is, though: what exactly IS the "American Dream"? Is it a general definition, or is it different things to different people? It's hard sometimes to work to give Americans this "dream" when it can mean so many different things.

Earnie Shavers said:
And when you turn around and call one of these people a racist, they probably genuinely don’t feel that they are, in any simple “I don’t like black people” sense.
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Exactly. I know full well that the fact he's black is a massive reason for many of these people, but at the same time it doesn't seem like it's that simple, because there's many out there that I wouldn't peg as being racist but who really don't like him regardless, and so there have to be other factors. Is it that he managed to achieve his "American dream", to refer back to my earlier question, and these people haven't? Is it that he's smarter than some of them? Is it their general dislike of anything Democratic? What? Hell, I'm sure people here in FYM over the years that don't support Obama would feverently deny their dislike of Obama is related to his race, so if that is indeed the case, then what is their beef?

Canadiens1131 said:
The groundswell of young voter support for Obama was only there for the election. I'm 23; my generation is lazy. They're the kind of people who will turn out for the election when whipped up into action, but will not follow the "important" side of politics during the actual term. The recent Supreme Court decision on corporations and campaign finance is huge, but I doubt many voters my age are aware of it or care, when it is in fact one of the biggest things to happen in US politics in the 00s. Young voters will only return to polling stations with additional ID about 30% of the time to make sure a provisional ballot of theirs is actually counted. Lazy lazy lazy. Midterm elections are boring.
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I can agree in some respects, but honestly, I don't know if this is so much due to "laziness" on our generation's part-rather, I think it's due to the fact that we, quite frankly, have a lot of really old people in our government (seriously, look at a session of Congress sometime. Old, white/gray-haired guy, old, white/gray-haired guy, and oh, look, another old, white/gray-haired guy). Our government as a whole is really out of touch with what young people care about today, they're still stuck in mindsets from 20, 30, 40, 50 plus years ago. Obama excited us because, hey, here's a guy who actually seems to give a damn about our generation, who doesn't brush us off and clings to this idea that "the older generations will run things forever!" and that we're too inexperienced and we're nothing but troublemakers ("Kids these days..."), he doesn't patronize us or dismiss our ideas. Unfortunately, once he won he had to work with a lot of these people of older generations, and has to try and appeal to older people as much as younger people, and since older people still have a lot of the control, they'll get more attention and priority.

I mean absolutely no disrepect to the older generations, as they have served us well and do deserve to be listened to and such, but I honestly think that's the biggest problem. I think young people care, or would care, a lot more than you think if they actually felt there was somebody out there who could put their concerns into action. If Obama and the Democrats managed to revive the youth vote again, that would be a definite help to them.

The rest of your post, however, is absolutely spot on. Can't disagree with a single word you said. Democrats desperately need a new game plan.

Angela
 
So Bob Woodward has a book coming out, looks like there's a bunch of infighting in the Obama administration-especially about Afghanistan.

Rahm Emanuel might leave in October to run for mayor of Chicago. I think that might be a very good thing for Obama.
 
I didn't vote for Obama in either the primary or the general (I had the luxury in the general election and could vote for Hillary and be able to cast a vote I really wanted to instead of being stuck voting for somebody like John Kerry. If it had looked like McCain/Palin had a chance of winning in PA, I would have voted for Obama). I'm sitting back and taking a wait and see attitude to see how things pan out. I like some of the bold things I thought he did early on. I think he's dropped the ball on a lot of other things.

Perhaps the people who supported him most were hoping for a vision and are now disappointed. I don't see one right now. (I don't see one in most politicians. I just hear soundbites) Winning the election doesn't change anything. Winning the election only gives you the chance to change something. You can't drop the ball because it is much harder to get it back than it was to get it in the first place.

Democracy is usually a boring thing, going to the polls year after year without many real choices, with only cosmetic differences or different buzzwords between the candidates--while you weigh who is going to end up hurting you the least.

The old people aren't going to give up the power they have. Nobody gives up power willingly. Ever. Even those old people who have no power. Somebody is going to have to take it and if the young people don't want it enough, they're not going to get it until the older generation dies off and the current young people become the old stick in the muds the new generation wants to move aside.

And you'll be wondering then, when was it exactly that I had any power?
 
I read the Wall Street Journal article that compared Obama to Carter this morning, with a somewhat bemused eye. People forget that politics are always cyclical. It's hard not to watch all of this coverage and think of Bill Clinton's first two years, which Obama mirrors nicely (inheriting a recession, majorities in both Houses of Congress that nonetheless seemed ineffective, wrestling with similar domestic policies). It wasn't that long ago that Clinton was relegated to the background, lionized by the 1994 midterm elections, and forced to make speeches asserting his relevance. What a difference two years made -- he learned how to effectively govern from the middle, sorted the economy (granted, assisted by an unprecedented technology boom), and spent the next six years enjoying a (fairly) peaceful period of expansion.

For that matter, Reagan's first two years were pretty bumpy too.

Things always turn around.
 
I understand what he's saying about making us stronger, but the word absorb sounds so strange in that context.

That's also some massive fodder for political purposes-ooh Obama says we can just absorb terrorism. I can just see the ads now.

Washington Post

"Woodward's book portrays Obama and the White House as barraged by warnings about the threat of terrorist attacks on U.S. soil and confronted with the difficulty in preventing them. During an interview with Woodward in July, the president said, "We can absorb a terrorist attack. We'll do everything we can to prevent it, but even a 9/11, even the biggest attack ever . . . we absorbed it and we are stronger."
 
Better yet let's watch those who lambasted it look the other way.

And then let's take both groups of those people and send them to the Moon.
 
I am one that lambasted (or at least was critical, or not trusting of Bush)

at this point I am indifferent
people are so stupid these days, putting all of their business and opinions of FB and twotter
 
What's wrong with voicing your business and opinion on FB and Twitter? Don't we do the same on FYM and the rest of Interference?
 
Obama questioned on abortion, why he is a Christian - CNN.com

Albuquerque, New Mexico (CNN) -- An event billed as a discussion on the economy turned personal Tuesday when a woman asked President Barack Obama about his Christian faith and views on abortion.

The question came at a town hall-style meeting in the yard of an Albuquerque home as part of Obama's public outreach to explain his policies and campaign for Democrats in the November congressional elections.

With a recent survey showing that only a third of Americans can correctly identify Obama as a Christian, the president gave a personal account of his conversion as an adult and how his public service is part of his faith.

"I am a Christian by choice," Obama began, standing beneath a blazing sun, when asked why he is a Christian.

"I came to my Christian faith later in life, and it was because the precepts of Jesus Christ spoke to me in terms of the kind of life that I would want to lead," Obama said. "Being my brothers' and sisters' keeper. Treating others as they would treat me. And I think also understanding that, you know, that Jesus Christ dying for my sins spoke to the humility that we all have to have as human beings."

Humans are "sinful" and "flawed" beings that make mistakes and "achieve salvation through the grace of God," the president continued, adding that we also can "see God in other people and do our best to help them find their, you know, their own grace."

"So that's what I strive to do," Obama said. "That's what I pray to do everyday. I think my public service is part of that effort to express my Christian faith."

At the same time, Obama emphasized his belief that freedom of religion is "part of the bedrock strength" of the United States.

"This is a country that is still predominantly Christian, but we have Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, agnostics, Buddhists" and others, he said, adding that "their own path to grace is one that we have to revere and respect as much as our own, and that is part of what makes this country what it is."

The same questioner also asked Obama about regulations on early and late-term abortion, a politically charged issue in the abortion debate.

Obama responded that abortion should be "safe, legal and rare" in America, adding that families -- not the government -- "should be the ones making the decision."

Restrictions against late-term abortion are in place now, he said, adding that "people still argue and disagree about it. That's part of our Democratic tradition."

On September 19, Obama publicly attended church for the first time in nearly six months when the first family joined the 9 a.m. service at St. John's Church Lafayette Square, an Episcopal congregation about a block from the White House.

The family sat a few rows from the altar, among roughly 40 worshippers. Each family member received communion, led by the president.
 
Now that he needs the votes she's VP? That's politics I guess.

Bob Woodward Revives Obama-Clinton 2012 Murmurs

The Huffington Post

Washington Post reporter Bob Woodward took it upon himself Tuesday to revive rumors of a potentially astounding White House scenario -- a Barack Obama-Hillary Clinton 2012 presidential ticket.

"It's on the table," Woodward told CNN's John King in an interview set to air Tuesday at 7 p.m. ET.

According to Woodward, there have been political calculations about the seemingly unlikely undertaking, which would allow Clinton to trade jobs with Vice President Joe Biden, making him the Secretary of State.

"President Obama needs some of the women, Latinos, retirees that she did so well with during the [2008] primaries and, so they switch jobs, not out of the question, and the other interesting question is, Hillary Clinton could run in her own right in 2016 and be younger than Ronald Reagan when he was elected president," Woodward explained.

CNN points out that Clinton would be just over 69 years old in January 2017, the time of a possible inauguration. In comparison, President Ronald Reagan was just weeks short of his 70th birthday when he was sworn in on January 20, 1981.

"Now you talk to Hillary Clinton or her advisers and they say 'no, no there's not a political consideration here,'" Woodward continued. "Of course the answer is, you point out to them that her clout around the world when she goes to Europe, Asia, anywhere is in part, not just because she's Secretary of State or because she was married to President Clinton, that people see a potential future president in her."

Despite Woodward's high-profile argument for such an administrative metamorphosis, the Obama-Clinton ticket concept is hardly novel.

Former Virginia Gov. L. Douglas Wilder pushed the idea in August, using similar reasoning and a rather unkind analysis of the first 18 months of Joe Biden's vice presidency.

And earlier this week, Former Bush White House chief of staff Andy Card pitched the proposal on CNN.
 
I see all sorts of pluses for Obama with this. I don't really see any for Hillary. She's already been First Lady, where arguably she had more influence than she would as VP. And she definitely has more influence as Secretary of State. All for an "if" six years down the road. Nah, if I were her, I would politely decline.
 
BonosSaint said:
I see all sorts of pluses for Obama with this. I don't really see any for Hillary. She's already been First Lady, where arguably she had more influence than she would as VP. And she definitely has more influence as Secretary of State. All for an "if" six years down the road. Nah, if I were her, I would politely decline.
Click to expand...



but it sets her up perfectly for 2016.

and i think everyone agrees that the most important thing is keeping the GOP out of the White House -- and Hillary ultimately wants the presidency, and she'll have an easier time if Obama wins in 2012 with her on the ticket than if he either, 1) wins without her on the ticket, or 2) loses with or without her.

being 1st Lady is in no way comparable to being VP, and eventually POTUS.
 
Woah boy, I would be excited to see Clinton in the VP slot if that sets her up for 2016.

As for the 'Obama questioned on abortion, why he is a Christian - CNN.com', article, I find it amusing that in the US you still have to pretend to be vaguely religious (only Christian, of course) to hold public office.

It's pretty evident Obama gives more thought to cheeseburgers and basketball than to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
 
That is the conventional wisdom that that sets her up for 2016. I think it is overrated as a sure shot. She has profile as Secretary of State she will lose as VP. I'd stay Secretary of State and challenge the VP in the primaries. As VP, she can either be high-profiled or buried--that decision to be made by a man who no longer needs you once he is re-elected. I'd take my chances.

Now a run against him in 2012 might be interesting, but I assume it would be about as successful as Kennedy against Carter so I don't think that will go anywhere. It's too early for me to consider whether I like her chances in 2016.
 
Canadiens1131 said:
As for the 'Obama questioned on abortion, why he is a Christian - CNN.com', article, I find it amusing that in the US you still have to pretend to be vaguely religious (only Christian, of course) to hold public office.

It's pretty evident Obama gives more thought to cheeseburgers and basketball than to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Click to expand...

I find it funny, too. I find it amazing that in this day and age people still feel they need to know or care about such things. Especially since your religion doesn't have squat to do with how good a public official you'll be. I can imagine Obama's probably getting incredibly tired of having to answer these questions-I know I sure would be. I'd just start saying, "Know what? That's really nobody else's business" and leave it at that.

As for Hilary running as a possible VP, well, anything's likely nowadays, who knows, but I dunno if I see her doing it. She seems pretty happy in the job she has now. I have a better chance believing she'd run in 2016, but I don't even know if she'd do so then, despite the fact that I fully believe she'd still want the job. Sure, being vice-president would set her up a lot more easily for the job of president by then, but I think she could still find plenty of ways to keep her name out there from now until 2016 if she really wants to go for it.

Also, yeah, the different demographics are important to Obama, but he managed to win with them in 2008 despite not having Hilary on his ticket, so if he could do it without her then, I don't see why he can't do it again this time.

It would be nice to have Hilary run, though, if for no other reason than to hear what an intelligent female politician sounds like. Whether or not you side with her politics, you can't deny she's a smart woman.

Angela
 
Barack took office Jan 20, 2009 Dow Jones closes at 7949

Dow closes today at 11,006

Dow is up over 38% with Obama as President :up:
 
they showed up in good numbers in 2008, I know midterms always have lower turnouts

but there was a spike up in 08 over 04 in young voters.

it will be interesting to compare 06 to this Nov.
 
Bill Clinton's been generally respected ever since he left office. 2008 hurt him because of his little battles he (and Hilary) occasionally waged against Obama, it came across as sour grapes at times. But it doesn't take away from the general consensus among many that he was definitely one of our better presidents-the Democrats would do well to keep him in their corner.

Midterms are usually never as "glamorous" as the presidential elections for most age groups to begin with, it doesn't surprise me if young people aren't as eager this year as they were in '08. It makes me happy that many young people are still hopeful about Obama, but I fully agree they do have to stay as interested and as active now as they did then. Unfortunately, now that the Democrats have full control, they've been spending their time working (or trying to work) on the problems they were elected to solve, so they aren't able to devote as much time to "energizing the voters". Doesn't mean they still shouldn't try, though.

Angela
 
I just got back from a Barack Obama rally in Los Angeles. The man is pure magic in person, let me tell you. Rally drew over 30k to USC and included Jerry Brown and Barbara Boxer. So, where I live at least, he can still pull them in.

The speech was rah-rah, with my highlight being when he talked about when you want to move forward in a car you shift to D when you want to go backward you shift to R, that wasn't an accident.

On a U2 note, he was played in to COBL and even gave a Bono shoutout.
 
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