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Old 01-28-2011, 08:46 PM   #631
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Except she was looking into the right camera. Many lazy people in the media (and in this forum, apparently) clearly didn't understand what was going on.


we know this now, but her producers really suck if they can't address such a simple issue as this.

but no camera, web or not, is going to make her any less of a national embarrassment/blind prophet.
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:07 AM   #632
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we know this now, but her producers really suck if they can't address such a simple issue as this.

but no camera, web or not, is going to make her any less of a national embarrassment/blind prophet.
 
Psst...please clear your PMs so I can send you a message. Sorry, everyone else.
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:28 AM   #633
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Psst...please clear your PMs so I can send you a message. Sorry, everyone else.


just did.
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:21 PM   #634
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but no camera, web or not, is going to make her any less of a national embarrassment/blind prophet.
From the NY Times:

Quote:
Last week, Bachmann was in Iowa, setting off alarm bells about her possible presidential ambitions and delivering a speech in which she claimed that the founding fathers had “worked tirelessly” to eradicate slavery. She then cited John Quincy Adams, who was not a founding father.

Bachmann is not a zealous fact-checker, as we learned when she claimed the president’s trip to India would cost the taxpayers $200 million a day, based on an Indian newspaper report quoting an unnamed provincial official. In the real world, many founders, like Thomas Jefferson, expressed reservations about slavery but still kept hundreds of slaves, who were the basis of their personal wealth. Others, like John Adams, never owned slaves and opposed the institution but compromised on the matter of all men actually being created equal in order to bring the southern states into the union. And not a single one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence envisioned in any way, shape or form a democracy in which people of Michele Bachmann’s gender would sit in the halls of Congress.

But Bachmann was speaking to the lore of the far right, which strips the founding fathers of their raw, fallible humanity and ignores the fact that, in some ways, we’re wiser.

Maybe she’ll make Sarah Palin look good.
Another idiot.
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Old 01-29-2011, 05:33 PM   #635
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From the NY Times:



Another idiot.


this is cleansing:


YouTube - Chris Matthews Hammers Tea Party Leader Over Bachmann's Slavery Error
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Old 01-29-2011, 07:43 PM   #636
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Wow, we finally get to see what STING/Strongbow/adam4bono looks like in real life.
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Old 01-29-2011, 07:51 PM   #637
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Old 01-29-2011, 11:17 PM   #638
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Russo was kind of dumb to go on Matthew's show in the first place. It's like those liberals that call up Limbaugh. You know you're going to be shouted down, you know you're going to be made to look like a fool, why would you set yourself up like that?

I concede it was amusing to see a conservative on the receiving end of these kinds of tatics for a change. I still don't feel that Matthew's approach in this interview does much to elevate the tone of discourse.

Bachman's speech was absurd though.
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Old 01-29-2011, 11:31 PM   #639
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I still don't feel that Matthew's approach in this interview does much to elevate the tone of discourse.

Bachman's speech was absurd though.

imho, it was appropriate to the situation. what she was suggestion -- essentially, turning George Washington into Jesus, or the deification of the "founding fathers" -- is so incredibly offensive, that the only possible response is derision. the woman not only doesn't have any grasp of history, worse, she *thinks* she has a grasp of history, but only enough to twist it to her own devious ends. she deserved to have her knuckles rapped, and she got it.

she and Matthews also have a history. i know that Matthews annoys many, not least some people in here, but i find his love of (and knowledge of) history and of the political game itself to be so compelling that i'll excuse his jaunts into hyperbole if it produces such an epic smackdown of a politician who revels in her own willful stupidity.
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Old 01-29-2011, 11:45 PM   #640
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imho, it was appropriate to the situation. what she was suggestion -- essentially, turning George Washington into Jesus, or the deification of the "founding fathers" -- is so incredibly offensive, that the only possible response is derision. the woman not only doesn't have any grasp of history, worse, she *thinks* she has a grasp of history, but only enough to twist it to her own devious ends. she deserved to have her knuckles rapped, and she got it.
No doubt.

But she'd already dug her own grave. Russo could have been called to account without the shouting down and interrruping.

My issue is not with the substance of what Matthews said, it's his approach. This is straight of the Hannity/Limbaugh playbook. And I get why they--and Matthews--do it. It's entertaining. Heck, I admit it, I was entertained. It would have been much more boring to allow Russo to finish his attempts to change the subject before asking him the same question again.

I just question whether we really dislike the Fox News ethos because of their approach, or just because we dislike their views.
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Old 01-29-2011, 11:52 PM   #641
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I just question whether we really dislike the Fox News ethos because of their approach, or just because we dislike their views.

this is an interesting question, but i'd counter by asking if you could find a Democratic equivalent of Michele Bachman spouting the equivalent of her blatant distortions of american history. while i agree with you on tactics, i don't think there's the same level of egregiousness on the left that there is on the right. i don't think that Olbermann and Rush are the same person, and i don't think that Matthews is the same as Hannity. there are very different degrees we're dealing with, not just in their place on the political spectrum but also in their willingness to bend history (or more) to suit their agendas. i also don't think there's the coordination on MSNBC that you have on Fox.

but what do i know?
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Old 01-30-2011, 12:05 AM   #642
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I just question whether we really dislike the Fox News ethos because of their approach, or just because we dislike their views.
I'd say it's the approach. Like I said recently, the fact that they're conservative in and of itself doesn't bother me. I may not agree with, like, I dunno, 95% of what they say/believe, but okay, they're promoting the conservative worldview, fine. I don't care. Always good and interesting to hear another side to the story. And there's been many conservatives whom I've listened to who come off as respectful, genuine, intelligent, and reasonable, and I like hearing what they have to say as a result whenever I see them on TV.

But Fox News promotes the conservative mindset in the absolute worst way possible. If I were a conservative watching Fox News, I'd be insulted and embarrassed that they think they're speaking for me. They employ the fringe fear tactics instead of actual legitimate arguments so often, they show the crazy nonsensical conservative view instead of the rational, mature one. Not always, I'll give them this. Every so often they do have somebody there who makes a genuinely good point and who actually dares to challenge something and has the logic and facts to back up what they're saying. But most of the time I've caught the channel, it's the former situation I see so much more often than the latter. And I just think that's sad. Conservatives deserve a better means of delivering their side of the debate.

And I don't care what political party line you tow, for god's sake, before you talk about a political issue on national TV, get your damn facts straight. If you act as though you know what you're talking about when it's obvious you really don't, I'm sorry, you deserve to be called out on it. Don't like it? Then apologize for your misunderstanding-slip-ups happen to everyone, it's okay to admit you made a mistake, unless you knowingly spread misinformation, in which case you're just a jerk-and brush up on the issue you're discussing before you open your mouth about it again.

And when you are called out for your ignorance, don't blame it on the other side and make it sound like it's some sort of "conspiracy" or whatever to attack you.

Again, I say this to both sides. It's something we all could do well to remember.

Angela
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Old 01-30-2011, 01:00 AM   #643
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this is an interesting question, but i'd counter by asking if you could find a Democratic equivalent of Michele Bachman spouting the equivalent of her blatant distortions of american history. while i agree with you on tactics, i don't think there's the same level of egregiousness on the left that there is on the right. i don't think that Olbermann and Rush are the same person, and i don't think that Matthews is the same as Hannity. there are very different degrees we're dealing with, not just in their place on the political spectrum but also in their willingness to bend history (or more) to suit their agendas. i also don't think there's the coordination on MSNBC that you have on Fox.

but what do i know?
I think your assessment is spot on. My point was not to make an argument that "see the left does it too." I simply didn't care for Matthews shouting down Russo and interrupting him, that's all. I was speaking to one specific incident not trying to broader statement.

The truth is I watch very little television, particularly the news. I never watch Fox News. I mostly get my news through NPR.
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Old 01-30-2011, 01:06 AM   #644
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Where was the hyperbole in that? All I heard was yelling. I couldn't get through more than about 4 minutes.

But I stopped watching all network news years ago because every one of them had become infested with this kind of grandstanding, so I'm no longer in any position to say who's the Worst. Americans spend more time screeching at each other about what our pundits say than about what the actual politicians they're nominally evaluating do; it's disheartening and pathetic. When DeLillo wrote 25 years ago about TV being the ultimate arbiter of reality, that nothing was real until you saw it on television, it was mostly just funny. TV's no longer as singularly powerful, but now we seem to be at a place where one's own opinions don't feel valid or worthy of being acted upon unless you can find some pundit to mirror them back to you, someone with that assumed aura of moral authority you don't have. I know, I know, bah humbug...

Anyhow, Bachmann did seem to be drawing fairly heavy criticism from conservatives online over those comments, I thought (as well she should).
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Old 01-30-2011, 03:35 AM   #645
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I simply didn't care for Matthews shouting down Russo and interrupting him, that's all. I was speaking to one specific incident not trying to broader statement.
I completely agree. I'm a bit pissed that Matthews would do such a thing. Now the conversation is going to be about how he did this interview instead of how stupid Bachmann is, which has to be what the GOP wants. Instead of having to defend her, they'll be able to attack Matthews as a part of the big bad liberal media attacking the Tea Party* and their "grounds root movement."

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