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Old 12-22-2010, 06:36 PM   #541
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A lot of these men and women in the Senate are the same men and women that were there in the 1990s and 1980s. You only need to get two of them to get by any filibuster.
And your point being?

If you don't think there was a blind alligience pact going on then you might just be blind yourself.
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Old 12-22-2010, 07:15 PM   #542
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A lot of these men and women in the Senate are the same men and women that were there in the 1990s and 1980s. You only need to get two of them to get by any filibuster.


it's very difficult to be the *only* 2 of your party -- just ask the ladies from Maine -- to go with the other party.

having more Republicans in the Senate will probably make it easier for Obama to get things passed. there will be more coverage for Republicans to defect, like we saw with DADT and START.
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Old 12-22-2010, 09:57 PM   #543
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Let's not focus too strongly on the vote count, because time can be an equally important factor in delay and obstruction. According to Senate rules, when a majority tries to end a filibuster they must file, wait 2 days, and then be locked into debate for 30 hours, during which time the Senate can do nothing else. This is done twice, first on the motion to proceed (they can filibuster the attempt to have debate!) and then on the actual bill itself. If Harry Reid wants to pass a particular bill or nominees, he has to decide if it's worth carving out a week of Senate time in order to do so. And once the filibusters start piling up, the legislative calendar starts looking extremely crowded.

Judge Denny Chin was subject to a filibuster threat by Senate Republicans when Obama tried appointing him to the Second Circuit of Appeals. Earlier this year the Democrats sat down and carved out a chunk of time in order to process held up nominees.

He was appointed on a 98-0 vote. But the Republicans delayed his appointment for months, and kept the Democrats from considering other bills. So, good work on that.
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Old 12-23-2010, 12:36 AM   #544
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and they got the 9-11 responders bill through. which is a bit like saying, "okay, we'll stop clubbing puppies."
That makes me extremely happy. Like you said, pretty much a friggin' NO DUH, but hey...

Wow. DADT repealed, START treaty, and this all in one week . Not too shabby.

Angela
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Old 12-25-2010, 01:54 PM   #545
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and they got the 9-11 responders bill through. which is a bit like saying, "okay, we'll stop clubbing puppies."
Don't knock it. If Obama supported a bill to abolish puppy clubbing, the Republicans would work hard to convince the American people that clubbing puppies was a right protected by the Constitution and valued by "real Americans."
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Old 12-25-2010, 03:39 PM   #546
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clubbing puppies??
would fall under the 'pursuit of happiness' part of the constitution

I think puppies should have the right to go clubbing.





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Old 12-27-2010, 05:16 PM   #547
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And your point being?

If you don't think there was a blind alligience pact going on then you might just be blind yourself.
The fact remains, members of both parties stepped across the isle to pass bills in the 80s, 90s and 00s. Most Presidents can pick up two or more people from the other party to end a filibuster.
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Old 12-27-2010, 05:20 PM   #548
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it's very difficult to be the *only* 2 of your party -- just ask the ladies from Maine -- to go with the other party.

having more Republicans in the Senate will probably make it easier for Obama to get things passed. there will be more coverage for Republicans to defect, like we saw with DADT and START.
Well, the new congress was not seated for DADT and START and won't be until sometime in January. Getting DADT and START through the Senate proves that there is not some invincible wall of 42 Republicans that say no to everything.
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Old 12-27-2010, 06:37 PM   #549
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The fact remains, members of both parties stepped across the isle to pass bills in the 80s, 90s and 00s. Most Presidents can pick up two or more people from the other party to end a filibuster.
The political climate now is different than it was then, simply put. You really can't compare someone going across the aisle than to going across the aisle now. It's just harder to do as president. These Republicans are irrationally anti-Obama, in ways unseen in the past three decades.
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Old 12-27-2010, 07:09 PM   #550
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Most Presidents can pick up two or more people from the other party to end a filibuster.
I'm just going to assume you are being willfully ignorant on this one, I can't see any other reason as to why one couldn't see what was going on.
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Old 12-29-2010, 11:17 AM   #551
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LA Times

Reporting from Washington and Honolulu —

A standout season has done plenty to calm the controversy surrounding quarterback Michael Vick. But President Obama's praise of the Philadelphia Eagles for giving the convicted dogfighter a second chance has brought new energy to an old firestorm.

"This is a nation of football lovers," said Lisa Lange, a spokeswoman for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. She also said Obama was underestimating the negative reaction his comments would provoke. "It is also a nation of dog lovers."

The subject of Vick, whose signing by the National Football League team in August 2009 sparked protests from animal lovers across the U.S., came up in a recent phone call between Obama and Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie as the president praised the team's ambitious plans to power its stadium with alternative energy.

While discussing Lurie's November announcement to add hundreds of wind turbines and solar panels to Lincoln Financial Field, Obama also commended him for giving Vick a second chance, according to Peter King of NBC and Sports Illustrated.

In August 2007, Vick pleaded guilty to running a dogfighting operation, in a case that included graphic descriptions of dogs being hanged and tortured to death. He served 19 months in prison and was suspended by the NFL.

Upon his release in May 2009, Vick was mentored by former NFL head coach Tony Dungy, who ultimately testified to Vick's changed ways. The Eagles signed Vick to a one-year contract, then exercised an option for this season.

A White House statement Tuesday cast Obama's comments as consistent with the president's view that "individuals who have paid for their crimes should have an opportunity to contribute to society again."

But Bill Smith, the founder of Main Line Animal Rescue in the Philadelphia area, bristled at Obama's characterization that the Eagles' signing of Vick was motivated by wanting to give a convicted felon a second chance.

"If he couldn't throw a football, he wouldn't have had a second chance," said Smith, who organized a campaign last season to collect food for animal shelters every time Vick was sacked on the field. "This isn't about giving anyone a second chance; it's about who can make the Eagles organization more money."

Once the NFL's highest-paid player, Vick played the last two seasons under a court-approved bankruptcy agreement brought on by his legal woes. He has led the Eagles to a playoff berth and the NFC East division title and is having the best season of his career. On Tuesday, he was selected for the Pro Bowl.

He also has spent the last 17 months doing volunteer work for the Humane Society and various Philadelphia animal rights groups, but critics say the story of redemption being portrayed in the City of Brotherly Love is more about Vick's play than his efforts to rehabilitate himself.

"If the president truly believed in second chances, he would have adopted a dog from a shelter," Smith said.

In a statement, White House Deputy Press Secretary Bill Burton acknowledged that Obama and Lurie discussed "other issues" beyond the green initiatives.

"He of course condemns the crimes that Michael Vick was convicted of," Burton said.

As part of his probation, Vick has volunteered with the Humane Society and spoken to children about the evils of animal abuse. The Eagles also have donated money to animal shelters in the Philadelphia area.

Those efforts gave Vick a reprieve from some animal rights groups.

"As long as [Vick] is focusing on playing football and not abusing animals, we will focus our attention on those who are being cruel to animals," said Lange, the PETA spokeswoman.

But Vick's detractors have not forgotten the viciousness of his crimes. He riled activists this month when he told NBC News that he "would love to get another dog in the future. I think it would be a big step for me in the rehabilitation process."

Vick is not allowed to own a dog while he is on probation, and PETA wants the restriction extended when he is up for review in 2012. In the same way convicted pedophiles are not allowed to be alone with children, PETA's board says, it believes convicted animal abusers should be denied unsupervised access to pets.

"Children and animals are completely defenseless to an abuser," Lange said.
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:38 PM   #552
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On one hand I like football, but on the other hand I hate animal abuse. On the other, other hand, I hate PETA.

So if we even it out by combining all terms, then it seems like it comes out that I like Michael Vick.
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:59 PM   #553
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Personally, I think Obama making that phone call in the first place was kinda stupid.
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:31 PM   #554
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Personally, I think Obama making that phone call in the first place was kinda stupid.
I think so too-ill advised.
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:31 PM   #555
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Personally, I think Obama making that phone call in the first place was kinda stupid.
Yeah, I think he should have just stayed out of it...

As the president he should believe in the system, and the man paid his debt to society so all these American Exceptionalism types should be praising Obama... but really he should have just stayed out of it.
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