Obama General Discussion II

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The thing about Huckabee's Kenya/anti-imperialism thing that baffles me is that he uses the example of anti-British imperialism as if it was a bad thing for Kenyans to feel.

As I recall, America's founding fathers felt pretty strongly about British imperialism, too. :hmm:
 
So, what is it, GOP? Why are we supposed to hate Obama? Can you all at least get your story straight so you have some credibility?
 
yes, but they were white and thus didn't need imperialism.

others, however ...

Basically. You would think Huckabee/Fox News would be able to concentrate attacks on the actions of Obama as president. Instead, they're trying to paint a picture of Obama as entirely un-American as if he was marked from birth. Through all this nonsense about Kenyan anti-imperialism and Indonesian madrassas, the running undercurrent is "be afraid of people who aren't just like you." Never a concrete connection between his past to how he has governed, just insinuations and conjectures that have little grounding in reality but easily sway the gullible and intolerant.
 
Basically. You would think Huckabee/Fox News would be able to concentrate attacks on the actions of Obama as president. Instead, they're trying to paint a picture of Obama as entirely un-American as if he was marked from birth. Through all this nonsense about Kenyan anti-imperialism and Indonesian madrassas, the running undercurrent is "be afraid of people who aren't just like you." Never a concrete connection between his past to how he has governed, just insinuations and conjectures that have little grounding in reality but easily sway the gullible and intolerant.



yes, but he has a funny name. Barack Hussein Obama? come on -- how many Americans do you know who have a name like that?


barack-obama-child-3.jpg




on a serious note, Obama was pretty much raised by white people, he went to the finest prep school in Hawaii, and his grandfather fought for Patton and liberated concentration camps at Buchenwald.

please -- tell me this is something other than racism. not specifically "i hate n*ggers" southern-style racism that's as old as America itself. this is a bit more complex, probably more akin to xenophobia.
 
Seriously. The right can deny it 'till the cows come home, but it's way past time to face this. Once again, if we expect everybody in every other group out there to denounce the actions and words of their extremists, expect it of the liberals and the Muslims and the blacks and whatever, then fair's fair, so conservatives, it is WAAAAAAAAAAAAY past time you start doing the same. Right?

You can't downplay this anymore. You really can't. It's too entrenched, for one thing, to sweep it under the rug, and for another, it's beyond scary. There are people stating these beliefs who are in potential positions of power, if not actually in power already. This needs to be dealt with. Now.

Also, Mark, heh, really, no kidding, there's an idea :up:.

Angela
 
not specifically "i hate n*ggers" southern-style racism that's as old as America itself. this is a bit more complex, probably more akin to xenophobia.
In retrospect, I guess Huckabee's pronouncements on Israel/Palestine--which are far-right even by Israeli standards, and have often made my jaw drop--may be more revealing of how he rationalizes conflicting worldviews than, say, his seemingly thoughtful responses to the Rev. Wright controversy. It is strange that he sympathetically describes Wright as shaped by a particular chapter in US history (segregation), dismisses Wright-equals-Obama thinking--even pointing out one could take fire-and-brimstone clips from Huckabee's own past preachers to make him look extreme too--yet then turns around and suggests the experiences of Obama's father (whom Obama saw just once after infancy) and grandfather (whom he never met at all) were somehow profound influences on his outlook, with their "Mau Mau" Muslim Kenyan anti-Westernismcolonialism...? But then, fiery black-church preaching is a stereotype Huckabee's familiar with and doesn't find foreign at all; whereas Wright's far less radical ex-congregant, who however had a Muslim atheist Kenyan father and white globe-trotting anthropologist mother and lived in Indonesia a few years as a kid...now, that's exotic. And the way Huckabee talks about Israel is kind of reminiscent of this: his "policy" unabashedly comes straight from his reading of the Bible--all of Palestine belongs to Jews because God gave it to them ("t goes back to Isaac and Ishmael," he's helpfully explained) so it's really the Saudis or maybe Egyptians who ought to make room for their Arab brothers--yet, despite such impeccably anti-Arab anti-Muslim "pro-Israel" sentiments, unlike practically every other presidential aspirant out there, he's never cultivated relationships with AIPAC-linked Jewish groups, and drops gems like this about the, um, clearly limited contacts with Jews he does have: "I was the only goyim [sic] in the entire group! If you’ve been around a lot of Jewish people, particularly from New York, they tend to be very opinionated, very animated. I felt like I was sitting between Barbra Streisand and Woody Allen—it was really interesting, it was surreal!” Everything seems to get cinematized, and I don't mean that in some deft PR-genius way.

My guess is this will only make mainstream conservatives even more wary of him, though (at the ballot box--not necessarily on Fox). Plus, Limbaugh already dislikes him big-time, doesn't he?
 
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"I was the only goyim [sic] in the entire group! If you’ve been around a lot of Jewish people, particularly from New York, they tend to be very opinionated, very animated. I felt like I was sitting between Barbra Streisand and Woody Allen—it was really interesting, it was surreal!”



oy! that's a wonderful quote. amazing how Jews are now, to the far right, and mostly because of Israel (which is really more code for anti-Muslim) and Israel's willingness to kick some ass, no longer Christ-killers but actually God's "special people" -- exotic creatures bestowed with wondrous gifts who need to be fiercely protected from the savagery that exists around them. of course, payback will come when it's time to build the temple, but until then, it must be quite unusual to suddenly have "most special kid brother" status.

in all seriousness, most Establishment republicans have to be a little wary of Huckabee. he really does appear to believe in the Rapture, and to not believe in evolution. and while that may make the base lick their chops, i still think there's enough mainstream voters in the primaries who are going to go with "most electable" like they did with McCain in '08 and like the Dems did with Kerry (instead of Dean) in '04. if Palin gets in there, her fight becomes with Huck, leaving the door open for Romney.

and taking a longer look at him, even if Chris Christie throws his hat into the ring, he'll turn out to be Giuliani -- the base isn't going to have much time for a pro-choice, pro-gun control Soprano cast member.

i still think, today, it's Romney's to loose.
 
it gets better?

Huck: I didn't diss Portman
By: Maggie Haberman
March 4, 2011 02:00 PM EST

Mike Huckabee walked back his criticisms of actress Natalie Portman for "glamorizing" out-of-wedlock pregnancies Friday, with a statement insisting he was only talking about society and that he's glad the Oscar winner plans to wed her baby's father.

It's the second time in a week that Huckabee, who suggested in the initial comments that the starlet was "boasting" about being unmarried and a mom, has walked back or explained away something he said during his book tour.

"In a recent media interview about my new book, A Simple Government, I discussed the first chapter, 'The Most Important Form of Government Is a Father, Mother, and Children,' " Huckabee said, referring to his appearance on The Michael Medved Show.

"I was asked about Oscar-winner Natalie Portman's out-of-wedlock pregnancy," he added. "Natalie is an extraordinary actor, very deserving of her recent Oscar and I am glad she will marry her baby's father.

"However, contrary to what the Hollywood media reported, I did not 'slam' or 'attack' Natalie Portman, nor did I criticize the hardworking single mothers in our country," he said.

"My comments were about the statistical reality that most single moms are very poor, under-educated, can't get a job, and if it weren't for government assistance, their kids would be starving to death. That's the story that we're not seeing, and it's unfortunate that society often glorifies and glamorizes the idea of having children out of wedlock."

In the Medved interview, Huckabee never addressed the subject of Portman marrying her fiance and father of her child, Benjamin Millepied, saying, "People see a Natalie Portman or some other Hollywood starlet who boasts, ‘we’re not married but we’re having these children and they’re doing just fine'...I think it gives a distorted image. It’s unfortunate that we glorify and glamorize the idea of out-of-wedlock children."

A representative for Portman didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.



at first, i thought Huck was just upset because he was really pulling for Annette Benning to win the Oscar for her well-written lesbian-motherhood dramedy, and took his disappointment out on poor Natalie, one of those "New York" Jews who's Harvard-educated and everything and probably very opinionated and animated, too. but, really, it was about the plight of black and hispanic children.
 
Shut up, Huckabee. The state of Natalie's womb or her ring finger is none of your goddamned business.

And neither is Jamie Lynn Spears' womb, even though you praised her for keeping the baby despite being an unmarried knocked-up 16-year-old.
 
Shut up, Huckabee. The state of Natalie's womb or her ring finger is none of your goddamned business.

And neither is Jamie Lynn Spears' womb, even though you praised her for keeping the baby despite being an unmarried knocked-up 16-year-old.



did he ever talk about Bristol Palin's womb?
 
When I was reading about his Portman comment last night, someone mentioned he also praised Bristol Palin. I can't verify, so I'll just say "Oh, probably. Shut up, Huckabee."
 
and i just read that maybe Huck was getting all Jedi Mind Trick on us -- he he was quietly talking about Bristol Palin in code, you know, all evangelical-like, because he knows his competition in 2012 is Bristol's momma grizzly.

(meanwhile, poor Mittens quietly hopes the two of them split the Christianist base in two and he can surf on through to the nomination)
 
"To the notion that Obama has a "Kenyan, anti-colonial" worldview, the sensible response is: If only. Obama's natural habitat is as American as the nearest faculty club; he is a distillation of America's academic mentality; he is as American as the other professor-president, Woodrow Wilson. A question for former history professor Gingrich: Why implicate Kenya?" - George Will.
 
Quite possibly, the former history professor in him finds it irresistible to have occasion to use his background in colonial African history against a political opponent. Even if the line of criticism involved is crackpot and borrowed from a decided nonexpert (D'Souza).
 
"Hollywood liberal" criticizes Obama :shocked:

From No 1 fan to critic-in-chief, Damon takes aim at Obama - Americas, World - The Independent

Damon, 40, star of the Bourne spy trilogy and two new films, The Adjustment Bureau and True Grit, is scrupulously polite and mild-mannered when we meet in a Manhattan hotel. But laying bare his disenchantment with the Obama administration, he doesn't hide how let down he feels. President Obama's record on the economy particularly rankles. "I think he's rolled over to Wall Street completely. The economy has huge problems. We still have all these banks that are too big to fail. They're bigger and making more money than ever. Unemployment at 10 per cent? It's terrible."

What has proved to be a challenging time in office for President Obama culminated in significant Democratic reversals to the Republicans at last November's mid-term elections. Many of his star backers have either kept quiet about politics or, as in the case of George Clooney, Damon's close friend and co-star in the Ocean's trilogy, remained steadfastly loyal. Not Damon. He is upset that Mr Obama, who promised to "spread the wealth around", has extended the Bush tax cuts and that the inequality gap has widened.

"They had a chance that they don't have any more to stand up for things," he says. "They've probably squandered that at this point. They'll probably just make whatever deals they can to try to get elected again."

Damon appears so disillusioned that, playing devil's advocate, I ask whether he is considering voting Republican. "Good God, no! I just got a 3 per cent tax cut. Do you think I'm going to start a small business with that money? You're out of your mind if you think so. I'm going to put it in the bank. So is every other guy that makes the kind of money I make. I don't think that's what's best for the country. I think a stronger middle class makes for a stronger country."

As well as the economy, Mr Obama's record on education repels him. "They have to get people who actually know about educating kids in positions of power. Now they're trying to get business people to come and manage schools like they're factories. It's not going to work."

Damon says that he's excited to be playing a politician for the first time in The Adjustment Bureau, a sci-fi romance. But he has no intention of seeking office. "There's probably a problem with somebody who wants to be a politician in the first place."

That said, he does admire Bill Clinton. Damon based his portrayal of LaBoeuf, the loquacious ranger in True Grit, on the former president. "There's a little bit of Clinton's charm thrown in. I could listen to him talk forever."


Last week...

This is not the man he voted for.

Matt Damon sat down with Piers Morgan for an interview that will air Thursday night, and among other things, talked about his feelings on the first two years of President Obama's administration. During the 2008 Presidential campaign, Damon was a vocal Obama supporter, campaigning for the then-candidate at rallies, promoting him through a MoveOn video contest and attending fundraisers for him.

Now, he's not so enthused about Obama. When asked if he was happy with the way the President is running the country, Damon said, point blank, "no."

"I really think he misinterpreted his mandate. A friend of mine said to me the other day, I thought it was a great line, 'I no longer hope for audacity,'" Damon said. "He's doubled down on a lot of things, going back to education... the idea that we're testing kids and we're tying teachers salaries to how kids are performing on tests, that kind of mechanized thinking has nothing to do with higher order. We're training them, not teaching them.
 
Yes, I think he is too. I agree with him, and sadly I no longer hope for audacity either. Don't know how much I really did in the first place, but I am disillusioned.
 
The disillusionment with Obama is not really surprising.

On one hand
  • Obama campaigned on a theme of transformative change and then staffed his administration with Washington insiders and experienced inside the beltway folks. Sad, but not unexpected when you consider the integral role of corporate/PAC money, interests, and lobbying in the U.S.'s political system
  • Marked inability to communicate well with the greater American public; you can't count on well-read intellectuals to deliver your messages or benefits to the masses who don't have time for political reading
  • The caveats of being part of a very ineffective Democratic Party, a party unable to capitalize on the gains it received in the 2008 election, with members only worried about their own asses in local elections in 2010, which they lost anyway.

On the other
  • To actually have an intellectual and Constitutional scholar in the White House is refreshing
  • Despite the pessimism, Obama has persevered with a surprising amount of reform and individual policy victories
  • Inherited one of the worst situations ever for America as an incoming President and working through it
  • Between having Obama vs. McCain and possibly Palin with a hand on the nuke button...is this seriously a close decision?
 
This is a president that will disappoint many, why because our expectations were too high...

Some thought he would change this country overnight, that equality would reign, and we'd move to the future.

Others thought we'd have a radical socialist come in fundamentally change the country and blacks and gays would start running the place.

Both were wrong.

I was a pragmatist, therefore overall not disappointed.
 
I am mildly disappointed by Obama, but that is largely when I hear about the Wall Street bullshit.

I am hugely disappointed in my country. Too many people are blinded by corporations and then rich, and are defending them to their detriment. I don't know when the pendulum will swing back from people trusting corporations to people trusting government, but it can't come soon enough.

When Obama begins his 2012 campaign, I will be fully on board. I will give money and maybe even some time; the alternative is just too awful to think about.
 
[*]Marked inability to communicate well with the greater American public; you can't count on well-read intellectuals to deliver your messages or benefits to the masses who don't have time for political reading
I think reluctance to engage, rather than manner of doing it, is the main problem here. He remains perfectly capable of delivering a powerful speech. But his tendency has been to hold himself 'above' the fray and let Congress slug it out, rather than forcefully leading the charge for his party's platform. Constitutionally speaking, there's nothing wrong with that, and in fact it's more in line with the original vision of the presidency; but the rise of the two-party system has led to expectations that the president should visibly lead the charge on major legislative goals--to do otherwise is perceived as weak and ineffective leadership.

It's true (since Damon alluded to it) that Obama lacks Bill Clinton's off-the-cuff skills, but that much was always true, and extemporaneity of that caliber is definitely the exception rather than the rule with presidents anyway. On the other hand, Clinton's obvious relish for jumping into the fray is probably sorely missed by an awful lot of Democrats right now.
 
When Obama begins his 2012 campaign, I will be fully on board. I will give money and maybe even some time; the alternative is just too awful to think about.
This is the frustrating thing about U.S. politics a lot of the time: it seems to be a zero-sum game. You're not voting for someone, rather voting against the horrible alternative most of the time.
 
This is the frustrating thing about U.S. politics a lot of the time: it seems to be a zero-sum game. You're not voting for someone, rather voting against the horrible alternative most of the time.

This is true, but consider I'm also represented by Rep. Keith Ellison and Senators Al Franken and Amy Klobuchar. So for me, only my presidential vote is a mild compromise.
 
Well the guy I thought I was voting for wouldn't have rolled over completely for Wall Street, and wouldn't balance the budget on the backs of the poor and middle class by cutting things like heating assistance-while extending tax cuts for the rich. Middle class tax cuts are hardly enough to pay for the increased prices of gas, heat, food, education, and everything else. And until the tax cuts for the rich dramatically reduce unemployment, I don't see how that helps either. If I wanted that I would have voted for McCain. I understand completely that the budget has to be balanced and the debt has to be reduced-but if you'd rather be a good President than a two term President (that's what he said) then you don't cowtow to certain special interests while screwing the poor and the middle class. I'm no economics expert but I just don't like it. I didn't have high expectations, but I'm still disappointed.

Scott Brown is against the heating assistance cuts and I applaud him for that.
 
A depressing chart:

graph.jpg


The question to pose to Obama (and any other future pres candidate) is: looking at the above graph, was the tax cut really worth it?
 
^I hadn't ever thought about companies being able to write-off punitive damages. It is a business expense, but is it really punitive then?

The rest of the chart is depressing, but not surprising.
 
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