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Old 04-07-2010, 03:23 PM   #691
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So you're against all peace treaties?
yes that is obviously what i meant. fuck peace.
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Old 04-07-2010, 03:30 PM   #692
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But they don't. They know you won't. I'm not talking about threats in a relatively similar weight class to the US (major nuclear nations like China and Russia) because that's where the deterrent actually does work. I'm talking about people like Iran, North Korea, or stateless organisations. They know the US will not - ever* - launch a nuclear attack unless it's part of a nuclear nukefest nukeoff with a major nukenemy.

Think it through. If it's via one of those lesser idiot states or a terrorist organisation, I can't even see the US responding in kind if a whole city and a couple of million people are lost. Not responding in kind wins not just every humanitarian argument, but every strategic argument too. Fox News and the raving mad end of the right wing would detest anything but a response in kind, but after the initial understandable fury and bloodthirst, the majority of the US would come around to seeing that too. There's just no way it would happen*. (Whispering) And other people know this too.

The deterrent doesn't exist in strategy because it doesn't actually exist in reality, so it's an easy win to just delete a paragraph or two.





* Palin Pending
save your "fox news" rhetoric for someone else. the last thing i am is a right wing hawkish "bloodthirsty" republican.

what, as if russia and china aren't potential future enemies of the united states? you honestly couldn't see a scenario in which one (or both) of these two nations came into conflict with the united states? especially in this time of dwindling resources?
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Old 04-07-2010, 03:35 PM   #693
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it's not a mistake to practice it... it's a mistake to say it.

the idea that we could use them is the best deterant we have going for us. even clinton agreed with that one.

i don't think we should actually go around nuking people... i just want our enemies to think that we might.
there are a lot of layers to this

the country was quite united after 911. some would have been fine if we used tactical nukes in Bora Bora to get a sure kill on BinLaden

there would have been controversy, but just playing a loop of the planes going into the buildings would have been enough justification for many. how could we take a chance that Obama might get away and do it again. He would have no qualms getting a nuke from a failed state and launching it. does anyone doubt that ?
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Old 04-07-2010, 05:16 PM   #694
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save your "fox news" rhetoric for someone else. the last thing i am is a right wing hawkish "bloodthirsty" republican.
That's right. Don't allow yourself to be labeled in here!

But I do agree with Earnie's posts. There's nothing to worry about. It's good presidential diplomacy.

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what, as if russia and china aren't potential future enemies of the united states? you honestly couldn't see a scenario in which one (or both) of these two nations came into conflict with the united states? especially in this time of dwindling resources?
I don't trust them either. But America is not that naive and I think we'll always have the threat of blowing them to hell and back with nukes. Our "friends" know that too.
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Old 04-07-2010, 05:17 PM   #695
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Well, the United States did not believe nation building would be worth it in Afgahnistan ...

While the Karzai government is far from perfect, its not clear that a better alternative(Afghan leader or political group) has emerged. Leaving Afghanistan because the US and NATO has an imperfect partner certainly will not solve the problems or the threat that is posed by a chaotic and unstable Afghanistan. Those problems would only get worse.
Afghanistan??

How will the ramp up of troops go with these developements??

http://afghanistan.blogs.cnn.com/201...n-afghanistan/

Protests topple Kyrgyzstan's president, opposition claims - CNN.com
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Old 04-07-2010, 05:28 PM   #696
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While the Karzai government is far from perfect, its not clear that a better alternative(Afghan leader or political group) has emerged. Leaving Afghanistan because the US and NATO has an imperfect partner certainly will not solve the problems or the threat that is posed by a chaotic and unstable Afghanistan. Those problems would only get worse.
I see your point, thanks.
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Old 04-07-2010, 06:31 PM   #697
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yes that is obviously what i meant. fuck peace.
My point is how is this any different from any peace treaty? You put certain things in writing and if you break that word you pay the consequences.
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Old 04-07-2010, 07:30 PM   #698
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But they don't. They know you won't. I'm not talking about threats in a relatively similar weight class to the US (major nuclear nations like China and Russia) because that's where the deterrent actually does work. I'm talking about people like Iran, North Korea, or stateless organisations. They know the US will not - ever* - launch a nuclear attack unless it's part of a nuclear nukefest nukeoff with a major nukenemy.
This is not true at all. If it were, Iran would not be spending so much money on hardening its underground nuclear facilities against ground burst from nuclear weapons.

The deterent effect is why the United States has never ruled out the use of nuclear weapons before in these situations.

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Think it through. If it's via one of those lesser idiot states or a terrorist organisation, I can't even see the US responding in kind if a whole city and a couple of million people are lost. Not responding in kind wins not just every humanitarian argument, but every strategic argument too. Fox News and the raving mad end of the right wing would detest anything but a response in kind, but after the initial understandable fury and bloodthirst, the majority of the US would come around to seeing that too. There's just no way it would happen*. (Whispering) And other people know this too.
Nuclear Weapons have other uses besides blowing up cities. If nuclear weapons were used against a rogue state, it would not be for flattening major cities in the country.

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The deterrent doesn't exist in strategy because it doesn't actually exist in reality, so it's an easy win to just delete a paragraph or two.
But your assuming that the leaders of the state in question would come to the same conclusions as yourself about what was "realistic". The reality is that while for many it might not be a deterrent, for some it could be, which is the drawback to stating precisely when the USA would respond with such weapons.
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Old 04-07-2010, 08:02 PM   #699
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There are already plans in place to to deal with a situation where the airbase at Manas in Kyrgyzstan could not be used. The government there had recently decided to end NATO's use of the airbase but reversed that decision. There are other airbases available in the southern former Soviet Union for the right price.
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:27 PM   #700
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Obama clashes with gay rights hecklers in L.A. - Yahoo! News
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:42 PM   #701
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I would hardly call that a clash.
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:54 PM   #702
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Obama States the Obvious to Hecklers
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:11 PM   #703
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I think it's just not happening fast enough for them. We have health care reform and other things and they're still waiting. He said pressure me so that's what they're doing


Gay Veterans Chain Themselves To White House Gate, Demand DADT Repeal (VIDEO)

"We were here over 30 days ago demanding that the president add repeal language into the Defense Authorization bill," said Robin McGehee, the co-founder of the organization. "He has not shown leadership to do that as of this time... [And] we don't believe that you need to be delaying the service members who are suffering under this policy any longer."

Asked whether Monday and Tuesday's protest was a harbinger of things to come, McGehhe, replied: "Absolutely. In our opinion we need equality all across the United States for all LGBT Americans. Service members are one group of people who are treated unjustly, but there are people who suffer..."

"At our national dinner he said: 'Pressure me,'" she added. "We're here to do it, That's what we're here to do."
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:49 PM   #704
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I would hardly call that a clash.
taking into account that the room was filled with people that paid a pretty penny to be inside, so they were all supposed supporters

this did get a lot of air play on local L A stations here.


I am trying to understand where he lost control of this. I think it was during the campaign, did he say he would end it in his first year?
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:53 PM   #705
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taking into account that the room was filled with people that paid a pretty penny to be inside, so they were all supposed supporters

this did get a lot of air play on local L A stations here.


I am trying to understand where he lost control of this. I think it was during the campaign, did he say he would end it in his first year?
Like Guantanamo?
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