Obama delivers speech on race and politics!

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MrsSpringsteen said:
Hmm, I don't care much for that "she's a typical white person" comment. I don't think he believes in such stereotypes and I'm surprised he would say it that way. By person she doesn't know I assume he means African American, since he referenced that before. Is he right though, do most white people react in that way? I think it depends upon situations and surroundings that you are in.

I had a racist grandfather, unfortunately- and I talk about that with people, I don't hide it. Why should he? I'm not even saying she's racist and neither is he, if I interpret what he is saying correctly.
Using the formulation "typical _____ person" about someone from a different "_____" than you is probably not the best word choice for a politician to use (though he's talking about a relative here, which I think does make a difference), but yes, I think absolutely it's typical for white people to feel more automatic tension when approached by a black man on the street than a white one, and let's face it, that doesn't come from years of diligent comparative study of criminology stats; it's a gut-level reflex reaction. I don't think he meant it to impugn his grandmother's character at all though, and am surprised how many (white) commentators seem to have taken it that way. It's perhaps a bit like the experience most women have probably had with their parents, that Mom sometimes "gets" their brushes with sexism better than Dad does despite his good intentions--but that in no way means you love or respect your father less, or conclude that he's a loathsome, hopeless misogynist boor just because he has blind spots on some things. That's not to say he's always wrong about those things either for that matter, but there should be no shame in acknowledging that these legacies affect everybody and that discussions about them are going to call for some moral imagination from both sides sometimes.
 
deep said:


I think you are old enough to remember Geraldine Ferraro

one statement reaps a whirlwind that thrashes her good name and lifetime of service ?

You mean one statement she repeated and backed up, right?
 
deep said:


I think you are old enough to remember Geraldine Ferraro

one statement reaps a whirlwind that thrashes her good name and lifetime of service ?

Yeah and I hung out with Eleanor Roosevelt too deep, we had some rockin good times.

Unfortunately Ferraro also made a very similar comment about Jesse Jackson in 88 I believe, I posted it in whatever thread talked about Ferraro. I don't think her good name is thrashed personally- but I do question her judgment in what she said, and her motives and the way she thinks about this issue-and her continued refusal to just drop it, because she's still talking about it. Do I think she's racist? No Do I think Senator Obama is? No Do I think Rev Wright is? I don't have enough info at all to decide that
 
I remember 84 very well. (puts walker aside)

It was a goofy statement,
pointless.


On the surface, it may be correct.

It is not possible to consider Obama without him being black.


Would one say W would not be where he is if he were black, Muslim or female?

It is easy to say W would not be where he is at, if he were not W Bush jr.

Will anyone honestly tell me that if Obama were not black he would have had this much success in this campaign?

Would Kerry have even picked him to give the keynote in 2004.

Would his speech have had the impact it did if he did not have his same life story?

Anyways, she is probably right, her motives seem suspect to me.

They were not well thought out.

She did include herself in the conversation as being the VP pick because of her gender.

I absolutely believe GHW Bush picked Clarence Thomas with much consideration to the fact that he is black.



Obama is either qualified to be a good president or he is not.
 
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Did Sen Obama's skin color give him the same exact advantages as GW Bush's name did? What disadvantages did Sen Obama's skin color give him and did he succeed tremendously in spite of those? Senator Obama's numerous attractive qualities and his abilities and his intellect exist regardless of his skin color and are independent of that.

Whether it was her intention or not what Ferraro said diminishes what Sen Obama has achieved. I give her the benefit of the doubt that it was not her intention.
 
deep said:

Obama is either qualified to be a good president or he is not.

And what are the necessary qualifications? Knowledge of the issues facing us and the will and ability to improve and solve them, I think that's paramount. So where is the talk about those? Sure you certainly need very good judgment too, but all humans make mistakes-Sen Obama included. The key is to acknowledge them and learn from them.

When was the last time GW Bush ever acknowledged a mistake? Even if Barack Obama was guilty of everything under the sun he's being accused of right now, personally I still think he has better judgment than GW Bush (I feel the same about Senator Clinton)- who has been there for eight years now and was re-elected in spite of his arrogance and incompetence.
 
MrsSpringsteen said:
Some people are responding 'what if HC (or John McCain for that matter) said someone is a "typical black person" for responding in a certain way to a certain situation'-regardless of the context and I know Senator Obama said that in a certain context. So what if? And why?
This is the main reason why I think "typical ______ person" isn't a well-advised formulation coming from a politician. But I think it's important to note that what he proceeded to link that phrase to wasn't some functional deficit suggesting an innate inferiority, but rather a socially consequential assumption born from inhabiting a different social status. Again, I'd personally advise against a politican using either formulation, but to my ear at least, "I don't think she has any animosity towards men, but my mother is a typical woman; if she sees a man alone with a child at the park, her reaction tends to be that something bad is going on and she reacts in a certain way" doesn't sound nearly as troubling as "My mother is a typical woman; she couldn't program a DVD player or fix a faucet to save her life."
 
MrsSpringsteen said:
Did Sen Obama's skin color give him the same exact advantages as GW Bush's name did? What disadvantages did Sen Obama's skin color give him and did he succeed tremendously in spite of those? Senator Obama's numerous attractive qualities and his abilities and his intellect exist regardless of his skin color and are independent of that.

Whether it was her intention or not what Ferraro said diminishes what Sen Obama has achieved. I give her the benefit of the doubt that it was not her intention.
Every candidate has skills and the "package" they come in.
We can only evaluate them as they are.


If Hillary were not married to Bill Clinton, would she be where she is at?
Diane Feinstein has been in the Senate longer, has skills and is well respected.
She does not have any delegates.


Would McCain have had as much political success if he were not a POW?
What are the point of these questions?

That is why I said her statement was pointless.


If any one pays attention to what I write in here,
I have always said bias exist and is a problem.
I put "racism" as one of our most serious problems.

I have also said I "won" the lottery at birth being born a white, male, straight in America.
I still believe in and support 'affirmative action'.

Does a black person, person of color, woman, gay person get as many opportunities as I do?
I don't think so.

Do I have guilt? No.

Would I like to see things more fair? Yes.

Am I inclined to vote for Obama to prove I am trying to help us all overcome these bias’?

I am not sure.

The fact that he is being given consideration as a serious candidate (in one of the two major parties)
when he has the least experience of any candidate to get that far, is saying something.

What that "something" is?
That, I am still thinking about.
 
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[q]The fact that he is being given consideration as a serious candidate (in one of the two major parties)
when he has the least experience of any candidate to get that far, is saying something.[/q]



i would say that his background -- being black and white, having a foreign-born father, having grown up in Hawaii, having lived abroad, and the fact that he quite clearly thinks very, very deeply and rather profoundly about difference, perception, and how different kinds of people can and do get along (perhaps even within the same body) -- does give him a refreshing perspective that is miles beyond a Connecticut blue blood who went to Yale and Harvard and claims to be "authentic" because he's got a studied Crawford, TX accent.

i think it matters that Bill Clinton came from what might be deemed 'poor white trash.' he was, you'll remember, "the man from Hope."

Hillary makes a big deal about her gender. McCain (and Kerry) make a big deal about their service.

background outside of politics and legislation does matter. and in many ways, experience and wisdom gained outside of I-495 is quite valuable.
 
pop quiz, y'all.

who wrote this:


[q]"God didn't call America to engage in a senseless, unjust war. . . . And we are criminals in that war. We've committed more war crimes almost than any nation in the world, and I'm going to continue to say it. And we won't stop it because of our pride and our arrogance as a nation. But God has a way of even putting nations in their place...[God will say:] And if you don't stop your reckless course, I'll rise up and break the backbone of your power."[/q]
 
Would Hillary Clinton be where she is if she wasn't married to a former President? See we can play that game with everybody...why single out Obama.
 
U2democrat said:
You've stumped me on that one, Irvine. Enlighten us :wink:



i'll give you a hint.

Republicans/Conservatives love to point out this man as being a great american, and because they say that, that then inoculates whatever racism might be inherent in any other critical thing they say of any other black person ever.
 
U2democrat said:
Calling America arrogant?!?!?!?! *GASP* How DARE he!!!



he's a racist who hates america. we should condemn and repudiate his statements.

i blame all the members of his congregation for not walking out when MLK spewed this hateful bile and blamed America for it's problems. he said that we were *worse* than the Viet Cong!!!
 
Irvine511 said:

i'll give you a hint.

Republicans/Conservatives love to point out this man as being a great american, and because they say that, that then inoculates whatever racism might be inherent in any other critical thing they say of any other black person ever.

That's what happens when a political party is made up mostly of typical white people.
 
Bluer White said:


That's what happens when a political party is made up mostly of typical white people.



the kind of white people who get upset when a pastor reveals a politician to be nothing more than a typical black person. angry.
 
Irvine511 said:
pop quiz, y'all.

who wrote this:


[q]"God didn't call America to engage in a senseless, unjust war. . . . And we are criminals in that war. We've committed more war crimes almost than any nation in the world, and I'm going to continue to say it. And we won't stop it because of our pride and our arrogance as a nation. But God has a way of even putting nations in their place...[God will say:] And if you don't stop your reckless course, I'll rise up and break the backbone of your power."[/q]

You really should read the whole sermon.
God "judge" America is not at all the same as God "damn" America.

http://www.stanford.edu/group/King//publications/sermons/680204.000_Drum_Major_Instinct.html

Given 2 months prior to his assassination, the final passages are eerie in their foreshadowing in the same manner his final speech, " I have been to the mountain top" was.
 
(AP) Obama's church addresses controversy

By KAREN HAWKINS, Associated Press WriterSun Mar 23

The new pastor of Barack Obama's Chicago church said during Easter Sunday services that recent national scrutiny of the church is a test that will only make the congregation stronger.

"Any time you go through a crucifixion experience ... eventually they have to lift you up," said the Rev. Otis Moss III, who did not shy away from the controversy surrounding his predecessor at Trinity United Church of Christ, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr.

Wright retired from Trinity's pulpit last month but retains the title of senior pastor. Video from some of his more inflammatory sermons has surfaced online and on television in recent weeks.

Moss said Sunday that Wright's critics and the news media "are just lifting us up to give us the opportunity to speak love to this situation."

Obama, a Democratic presidential candidate, has responded to the flap by condemning Wright's statements but expressing admiration and support for the pastor who officiated at his wedding, baptized his two daughters and inspired the title of his best-selling book, "The Audacity of Hope."

In a speech last week that took the country's racial divide head-on, Obama — the son of a white woman from Kansas and a Kenyan father — said black anger persists over injustice in America, and whites shouldn't be surprised about the way it's expressed in sermons.

"The fact that so many people are surprised to hear that anger in some of Reverend Wright's sermons simply reminds us of the old truism that the most segregated hour in American life occurs on Sunday morning," Obama said.

Obama did not attend the Easter Sunday service.

Trinity describes itself as "Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian," a declaration some consider separatist and even racist. In recent days, a CBS News poll indicated most voters have heard at least something about Wright's comments.

But at the church itself, the "unashamedly black" identity can be seen in the African and African-American art on the walls and windows, as well as in the traditional African clothing of the choir. It can be heard in references to rapper Tupac Shakur in Moss' Easter Sunday sermon, which was titled "Gangster's Paradise."

Moss told the more than 3,000 worshippers at one of four Easter services that the controversy has opened an unprecedented dialogue about race.

"We are talking in ways we have never talked as a country," he said.

Trinity is fighting back, including by launching its own YouTube channel and blog.

The spotlight has placed the 8,000 mostly black members of the church in the unusual position of being asked to explain something deeply personal — their faith and the way that they worship.

Linda Thomas, a professor of theology and anthropology at the Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago, has been a member of Trinity since 1997. She said she views the scrutiny of the church "as an opportunity for teaching."

"What's happened has opened up an opportunity to learn more about the prophetic ministry of Trinity United Church and of our awesome pastor Dr. Jeremiah Wright," she said. "And it brings in our new pastor in a big way."

She said she hopes people will realize Wright's comments have been taken out of context.

"A sound bite cannot capture ... a whole sermon," Thomas said.

___

On the Net:

Trinity United Church of Christ: http://www.tucc.org

Trinity on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/trinitychgo

Trinity's blog: http://truthabouttrinity.blogspot.com
 
U2democrat said:
Rev. Wright will be preaching at a church not far from me one Sunday in April...I'm tempted to check it out but I'm afraid there might be chaos.

Rev. Wright is going to be preaching at a church near you in April? I've been watching that stuff on CNN and Obama said he was retired.
 
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