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Old 03-18-2008, 07:07 PM   #91
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I guess I just disagree with you then. You seem to think that the only racist, anti-American things he ever said came from the handful of sermons that we've seen on the news. Personally, I think there are a lot more "God damn Americas" in his preaching history that will surface.
No, you seem to not be able to recognize a question. I asked, "Do we know if all of Wright's sermons were like this, or have we just seen the two or three that would make headlines?" I didn't think or assume anything.

Personally, I don't like the mention of America in any church, God bless it or damn it. Christians should be caring for the world and not just the country they live in. I think preachers on both sides of the coin are wrong.
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:10 PM   #92
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first of all

no one has said,

he said this everyday 24/7 for the last 20 years?


Perhaps we need to go back and read what some of you said about Imus?

I asked a simple question. I didn't think or assume anything.

And Imus did have more than one instance of racism and sexism over his career.
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:12 PM   #93
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McCain isn't "embracing" them. Have you seen Hagee on the news since his announcement of his endorsement? I don't think he's been out there on the campaign trail with McCain nor does he have a role in his team. To me, McCain is still keeping his distance from the Christian conservatives. Ask most hardcore Christian conservatives, and McCain still isn't their favorite person nor will he ever be.
Not embracing them? He's completely done a 180 or several issues just to appease Hagee's crowd. Someone needs to do some reading.
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:16 PM   #94
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Not embracing them? He's completely done a 180 or several issues just to appease Hagee's crowd. Someone needs to do some reading.
and those issues are?
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:17 PM   #95
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It is not the size, but the controversy.

Can you imagine a President sitting in a church and hearing those kinds of remarks from the pulpit?

And trying to excuse this off, as this just being how all "black churches" are, is not true.

I have been to a few.


it is how *some* black churches are, especially the politicized ones.

was Obama president at the time? hasn't Obama known this man for over 20 years? aren't you glad he's not as i-am-whatever-you-want-me-to-be plastic as a certain mormon from massachusetts?
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:18 PM   #96
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I have never and would never vote for a candidate that had an association with a church that "hates" gays.

And when people go anywhere near there, I call them on it.


good for you.

do you equate railing against an oppressive white establishment with saying that homosexual "acts" are abominations?
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:19 PM   #97
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and those issues are?


speaking at Bob Jones U, for example.
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:27 PM   #98
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saying that homosexual "acts" are abominations?

have you missed the times

I have called out the

'Hate the sin - love the sinner' as BULLSHIT

as just a flat out lie.

That it is teaching HATE.

the sin can not exist
without the sinner

they don't hate a behavior
they hate people
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:31 PM   #99
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Originally posted by Irvine511

do you equate
most things do not equate to other things


but many things fall on the side of
being wrong
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:33 PM   #100
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Originally posted by deep



have you missed the times

I have called out the

'Hate the sin - love the sinner' as BULLSHIT

as just a flat out lie.

That is teaching HATE.

the sin can not exist
without the sinner

they don't hate a behavior
they hate people


you've totally lost me.

and here's the issue.

what, on earth, does Pastor Wright have to do with how Obama will perform as a president of the United States?

can someone explain to me why it's so awful, so inexcusable, and, thusly, why their opinion has changed on Obama in any way, great or small, in light of these tapes of a few moments from particularly incendiary sermons?

what should Obama have done? and since he didn't do that, what does his refusal to do what he should have done say, to you, about his candidacy and his ability to lead?

has Obama not handled this well? how should he have handled it? what would you have preferred for him to do?

and, in sum, how is Obama any different of a person now than he was on March 1st?
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:35 PM   #101
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Originally posted by deep

but many things fall on the side of
being wrong


what the pastor said may have been "wrong,"

but is listening to him "wrong"?

is having a long relationship with someone you might disagree with on many things also "wrong"?

my grandparents were racist. my grandmother used to wonder aloud, "why can't they all just be more like Oprah?" but i still loved them. and they had a lot of wisdom to pass down.
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:42 PM   #102
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you've totally lost me.

and here's the issue.

what, on earth, does Pastor Wright have to do with how Obama will perform as a president of the United States?

can someone explain to me why it's so awful, so inexcusable, and, thusly, why their opinion has changed on Obama in any way, great or small, in light of these tapes of a few moments from particularly incendiary sermons?

what should Obama have done? and since he didn't do that, what does his refusal to do what he should have done say, to you, about his candidacy and his ability to lead?

has Obama not handled this well? how should he have handled it? what would you have preferred for him to do?

and, in sum, how is Obama any different of a person now than he was on March 1st?
all of the above could apply to Larry Craig

poor judgment ?

Would it matter if he was a member at Louis Farrakhan's organization.

He has a right to attend religious services where he chooses.

The pastor's rhetoric can have an affect with some people. The South Carolina Primary voters? perhaps not.

The Pennsylvania primary voters? Some, how many points? 3-5?


Now in the November election? That could be a bigger problem?
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:43 PM   #103
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and those issues are?
They use to be "agents of intolerance", now they are his friends. Bob Jones Torture. He modified his views on gay marriage.
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:44 PM   #104
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Originally posted by deep


all of the above could apply to Larry Craig

poor judgment ?



Larry Craig possibly broke a law and pled guilty to a misdemeanor.

surely going to church isn't a crime?


[q]Would it matter if he was a member at Louis Farrakhan's organization.[/q]

who? Wright or Obama?




Quote:
The pastor's rhetoric can have an affect with some people. The South Carolina Primary voters? perhaps not.

The Pennsylvania primary voters? Some, how many points? 3-5?

Now in the November election? That could be a bigger problem?

is this about Obama as president, or Obama as candidate?

you've yet to make these distinctions.
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:46 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
what the pastor said may have been "wrong,"

but is listening to him "wrong"?

is having a long relationship with someone you might disagree with on many things also "wrong"?

my grandparents were racist. my grandmother used to wonder aloud, "why can't they all just be more like Oprah?" but i still loved them. and they had a lot of wisdom to pass down.

when people in my family say bias things

I gently confront them with questions
and hope to help them reach new understandings.




When I heard bias from the pulpit?
I disassociated.

I did not make donations and ask myself how I could parlay this to further other aspirations I might have.
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