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Old 03-18-2008, 05:23 PM   #61
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Originally posted by Abomb-baby
[B]
Ummm No Mr. Obama I haven't. I guess the difference between me and you is that:

1. My church focuses on the teachings of Jesus, not on the political ideology of a church and a Pastor.


ummmm, do you know much about the political traditions of the black church? you know how churches love to take credit for the civil rights movement? that's 'cause of the black churches.




[q]2. If my Pastor had made such divisive statements, and I was touting myself to be a "Post-racial Candidate", I would find another church to attend. [/q]


so it's all about political expediency for you? you throw people under the bus after 20 years the minute they become possibly detrimental to your campaign.
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Old 03-18-2008, 05:38 PM   #62
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Originally posted by Irvine511




firstly, of that group, i find Wrights general comments to be far, far less offensive than the lives and careers of Dobson, Fallwell, Robertson, etc. and i think you'll find that all of them enjoy vastly more political power than Wright, who's really just a local preacher and who's influence probably doesn't go much beyond a few neighborhoods in Chicago.

so if we are comparing these men to each other, Wright is by far the least offensive, both in content and in influence.

however, you are correct in pointing out that McCain's relationship with Hagee doesn't compare to what has obviously been an intimate, intellectual, 20 year relationship with Obama.

does this bother me?

i will say that there is much, much more to Wright than we are hearing. an example:

[q]But I was only looking at the horizontal level. I did not understand nor could I see back then the vertical hookup that my mother and my father had. I did not know then that they were thanking him in advance for all they dared to hope he would do one day to their son, in their son, and through their son. That's why they prayed. That's why they hoped. That's why they kept on praying with no visible sign on the horizon. And I thank God I had praying parents, because now some thirty-five years later, when I look at what God has done in my life, I understand clearly why Hannah had the audacity to hope. Why my parents had the audacity to hope.

And that's why I say to you, hope is what saves us. Keep on hoping; keep on praying. God does hear and answer prayer.[/q]

and, yes, i will make a racialized distinction, because i think that matters here.

i have less of a problem with a black pastor railing against an oppressive government -- one that during his lifetime had maintained Jim Crow laws -- versus white pastors picking on minorities in the name of Jesus, and then asking for your money, and then peddling their influence into political power.

i find much of what has been tossed around by Wright to be awful. if there is one thing i've been consistent on, it's been defending the US against the insinuation that 9-11 was somehow "just desserts" for certain foreign policy decisions, that we had it coming. Wright seems to think that. i don't. and i don't think Obama does either.

finally, what continues to impress me about Obama is, first, that he hasn't tossed Wright, the man, under the bus, and, second, that he obviously has friends around who do more than kiss his ass and tell him how wonderful he is.

wish our president did that.
Our president is an idiot dammit!
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Old 03-18-2008, 05:43 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
you throw people under the bus after 20 years the minute they become possibly detrimental to your campaign.
if they are driving the bus straight to anti-American Muslims and Louis Farrakhan is the co-pilot, you certainly don't stay on the bus.
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Old 03-18-2008, 05:48 PM   #64
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Originally posted by Harry Vest
I Although I may change my mind right now at this particular moment I'm thinking America will get what it deserves - Hillary or McCain - not much difference between the two.
If you think there is NOT "much difference"" between these two-- then either you MAYBE aren't paying that much attention to certain issues, because you are more involved with other issues, OR don't think they are that important.

Here are some of Hill's Negativers for me-
# too uber corporatist {there are some corps that have learned to become good citizens of America}

# did NOT like that she' seems to have said Obama is not up to the task of defending the country as she & McC are.

But MAJOR DIfferences ARE--
*A woman's right to choose -- if you don't GET that to have a child or not can SO totally cnange a woman's life -- then yoiu need to further educate yourself...

*Do you have relatives on Social Security or Social Security Disability ?
Team B/C & McC want[ed] to PRIVAIiZE these Safety net Entitlements hillary does NOT.

*I beleive she does have a more nuanced uderstanding of the world-- even if right now she has to play her I'M really tough card because of percieved weaknesses of women on International Security issues.

my time on this puter [bah] is up, so I'll have to come back another time

I heard excerts from OB's speech....
VERY important and well said.
hopefully get the transpcript in n4ext day or so.
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Old 03-18-2008, 05:57 PM   #65
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Originally posted by deep


if they are driving the bus straight to anti-American Muslims and Louis Farrakhan is the co-pilot, you certainly don't stay on the bus.


would you like Obama to lead a lynching?
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:03 PM   #66
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I just watched all 37 minutes of Barack's speech, and I am thrilled. It was very moving, sincere, and explained a bit about the Wright controversy. I still find it a bit strange that he hadn't heard anything remotely racist come out of that man's mouth in 20 years, but I can understand his connection to him and his affection for him.

I remain on the Obama bandwagon and am proud of that. This man knows what's up.
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:10 PM   #67
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just like he is not a member of Louis Farrakhan's organization

I would expect him not to be a member here


all of the comparisons you keep bringing up with McCain don't hold up

unless those are the pastors from the church that McCain attends and where he claims to be a member.


I suppose quiting the church now,
could be interpreted as throwing him under the bus, because of the timing

Obama is in a jam, of his own making

It seems a bit like people wanting me to feel sorry for Bush because the Iraq thing got so messed up.


a smarted person would have chosen a smaller church closer to his home
a couple of years ago
when he started considering higher office
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:11 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
just like he is not a member of Louis Farrakhan's organization

I would expect him not to be a member here


all of the comparisons you keep bringing up with McCain don't hold up

unless those are the pastors from the church that McCain attends and where he claims to be a member.


I suppose quiting the church now,
could be interpreted as throwing him under the bus, because of the timing

Obama is in a jam, of his own making

It seems a bit like people wanting me to feel sorry for Bush because the Iraq thing got so messed up.


a smarted person would have chosen a smaller church closer to his home
a couple of years ago
when he started considering higher office
Perhaps this isn't about what's good for the campaign.

Perhaps he's actually being sincere, and cares about the church he attends.

Is that an impossibility?
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:12 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by Abomb-baby
Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely – just as I’m sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed…

Ummm No Mr. Obama I haven't. I guess the difference between me and you is that:

1. My church focuses on the teachings of Jesus, not on the political ideology of a church and a Pastor.

2. If my Pastor had made such divisive statements, and I was touting myself to be a "Post-racial Candidate", I would find another church to attend.
To find a church that doesn't infuse political views is rare, either you are one of the lucky ones or you are so use to the political views they have become the teachings of Christ for you.
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:12 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by LemonMelon
I still find it a bit strange that he hadn't heard anything remotely racist come out of that man's mouth in 20 years

I remain on the Obama bandwagon and am proud of that. This man knows what's up.


I still find it strange that there were no WMD's in Iraq


Go Bush/Cheney 2004
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:16 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by LemonMelon


Perhaps this isn't about what's good for the campaign.

Perhaps he's actually being sincere, and cares about the church he attends.

Is that an impossibility?

Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain't never been called a nigger.

Hillary is married to Bill. And Bill have been good to us.
No, he ain't. Bill did us just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty.



This is what the father of two little girls wants then to hear in church?

From the pulpit?

sincerely?
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:18 PM   #72
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Originally posted by deep



Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain't never been called a nigger.

Hillary is married to Bill. And Bill have been good to us.
No, he ain't. Bill did us just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty.



This is what the father of two little girls wants then to hear in church?

From the pulpit?

sincerely?
In all fairness, Obama claims to have never heard such rhetoric.

So you can either label the man as a lying con-man out to cover his own ass, or use a different example.
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:21 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep



Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain't never been called a nigger.

Hillary is married to Bill. And Bill have been good to us.
No, he ain't. Bill did us just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty.



This is what the father of two little girls wants then to hear in church?

From the pulpit?

sincerely?
Exactly. The "well, you need to understand the black experience" defense only goes so far. Wright's comments have no place in a house of worship.
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:22 PM   #74
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In all fairness, Obama claims to have never heard such rhetoric.

So you can either label the man as a lying con-man out to cover his own ass, or use a different example.
Somebody that was thinking objectively and not going with their Obama/bias wrote this:

Quote:
I still find it a bit strange that he hadn't heard anything remotely racist come out of that man's mouth in 20 years
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:22 PM   #75
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Originally posted by LemonMelon


In all fairness, Obama claims to have never heard such rhetoric.

I take it you missed his speech this morning?

"Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes."
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