Obama delivers speech on race and politics!

[BVS]

I guess I just disagree with you then. You seem to think that the only racist, anti-American things he ever said came from the handful of sermons that we've seen on the news. Personally, I think there are a lot more "God damn Americas" in his preaching history that will surface.

No, you seem to not be able to recognize a question. I asked, "Do we know if all of Wright's sermons were like this, or have we just seen the two or three that would make headlines?" I didn't think or assume anything.

Personally, I don't like the mention of America in any church, God bless it or damn it. Christians should be caring for the world and not just the country they live in. I think preachers on both sides of the coin are wrong.

 

[BVS]

first of all

no one has said,

he said this everyday 24/7 for the last 20 years?


Perhaps we need to go back and read what some of you said about Imus?

I asked a simple question. I didn't think or assume anything.

And Imus did have more than one instance of racism and sexism over his career.

 

[BVS]

McCain isn't "embracing" them. Have you seen Hagee on the news since his announcement of his endorsement? I don't think he's been out there on the campaign trail with McCain nor does he have a role in his team. To me, McCain is still keeping his distance from the Christian conservatives. Ask most hardcore Christian conservatives, and McCain still isn't their favorite person nor will he ever be.

Not embracing them? He's completely done a 180 or several issues just to appease Hagee's crowd. Someone needs to do some reading.

 

[MaxFisher]

Not embracing them? He's completely done a 180 or several issues just to appease Hagee's crowd. Someone needs to do some reading.

and those issues are?

 

[Irvine511]

It is not the size, but the controversy.

Can you imagine a President sitting in a church and hearing those kinds of remarks from the pulpit?

And trying to excuse this off, as this just being how all "black churches" are, is not true.

I have been to a few.

it is how *some* black churches are, especially the politicized ones.

was Obama president at the time? hasn't Obama known this man for over 20 years? aren't you glad he's not as i-am-whatever-you-want-me-to-be plastic as a certain mormon from massachusetts?

 

[Irvine511]

I have never and would never vote for a candidate that had an association with a church that "hates" gays.

And when people go anywhere near there, I call them on it.

good for you.

do you equate railing against an oppressive white establishment with saying that homosexual "acts" are abominations?

 

[Irvine511]

and those issues are?

speaking at Bob Jones U, for example.

 

[deep]

saying that homosexual "acts" are abominations?

have you missed the times

I have called out the

'Hate the sin - love the sinner' as BULLSHIT

as just a flat out lie.

That it is teaching HATE.

the sin can not exist
without the sinner

they don't hate a behavior
they hate people

 

[deep]

do you equate

most things do not equate to other things


but many things fall on the side of
being wrong

 

[Irvine511]

have you missed the times

I have called out the

'Hate the sin - love the sinner' as BULLSHIT

as just a flat out lie.

That is teaching HATE.

the sin can not exist
without the sinner

they don't hate a behavior
they hate people

you've totally lost me.

and here's the issue.

what, on earth, does Pastor Wright have to do with how Obama will perform as a president of the United States?

can someone explain to me why it's so awful, so inexcusable, and, thusly, why their opinion has changed on Obama in any way, great or small, in light of these tapes of a few moments from particularly incendiary sermons?

what should Obama have done? and since he didn't do that, what does his refusal to do what he should have done say, to you, about his candidacy and his ability to lead?

has Obama not handled this well? how should he have handled it? what would you have preferred for him to do?

and, in sum, how is Obama any different of a person now than he was on March 1st?

 

[Irvine511]

but many things fall on the side of
being wrong

what the pastor said may have been "wrong,"

but is listening to him "wrong"?

is having a long relationship with someone you might disagree with on many things also "wrong"?

my grandparents were racist. my grandmother used to wonder aloud, "why can't they all just be more like Oprah?" but i still loved them. and they had a lot of wisdom to pass down.

 

[deep]

you've totally lost me.

and here's the issue.

what, on earth, does Pastor Wright have to do with how Obama will perform as a president of the United States?

can someone explain to me why it's so awful, so inexcusable, and, thusly, why their opinion has changed on Obama in any way, great or small, in light of these tapes of a few moments from particularly incendiary sermons?

what should Obama have done? and since he didn't do that, what does his refusal to do what he should have done say, to you, about his candidacy and his ability to lead?

has Obama not handled this well? how should he have handled it? what would you have preferred for him to do?

and, in sum, how is Obama any different of a person now than he was on March 1st?

all of the above could apply to Larry Craig

poor judgment ?

Would it matter if he was a member at Louis Farrakhan's organization.

He has a right to attend religious services where he chooses.

The pastor's rhetoric can have an affect with some people. The South Carolina Primary voters? perhaps not.

The Pennsylvania primary voters? Some, how many points? 3-5?


Now in the November election? That could be a bigger problem?

 

[BVS]

and those issues are?

They use to be "agents of intolerance", now they are his friends. Bob Jones Torture. He modified his views on gay marriage.

 

[Irvine511]

all of the above could apply to Larry Craig

poor judgment ?

Larry Craig possibly broke a law and pled guilty to a misdemeanor.

surely going to church isn't a crime?


[q]Would it matter if he was a member at Louis Farrakhan's organization.[/q]

who? Wright or Obama?

The pastor's rhetoric can have an affect with some people. The South Carolina Primary voters? perhaps not.

The Pennsylvania primary voters? Some, how many points? 3-5?

Now in the November election? That could be a bigger problem?

is this about Obama as president, or Obama as candidate?

you've yet to make these distinctions.

 

[deep]

what the pastor said may have been "wrong,"

but is listening to him "wrong"?

is having a long relationship with someone you might disagree with on many things also "wrong"?

my grandparents were racist. my grandmother used to wonder aloud, "why can't they all just be more like Oprah?" but i still loved them. and they had a lot of wisdom to pass down.

when people in my family say bias things

I gently confront them with questions
and hope to help them reach new understandings.




When I heard bias from the pulpit?
I disassociated.

I did not make donations and ask myself how I could parlay this to further other aspirations I might have.

 

[deep]

is this about Obama as president, or Obama as candidate?

you've yet to make these distinctions.

his goal is to be president

he has to win two political races

so the questions that need to be answered are:

Is he the best candidate in the primaries?

Should he get the nomination, is he able to win in November?

 

[Irvine511]

when people in my family say bias things

I gently confront them with questions
and hope to help them reach new understandings.




When I heard bias from the pulpit?
I disassociated.

I did not make donations and ask myself how I could parlay this to further other aspirations I might have.

and that might get to the heart of the issue. Wright was more than just a pastor to Obama. "disassociation" might have been impossible with the man who literally brought him to Christianity.

perhaps your friends are disposable. it doesn't seem as if Obama's are.

again, i don't know what else Obama has to do here.

this obviously isn't good for the campaign. it's obvious his relationship with Wright is problematic for many people. it's obvious Wright has said incendiary, offensive things. but what's a candidate to do?

 

[Irvine511]

Is he the best candidate in the primaries?

Should he get the nomination, is he able to win in November?

ask yourself why hundreds of thousands of Republicans are voting for Hillary in the primaries.

ask yourself why hundreds of thousands of Republicans are voting for Hillary in the primaries.

and, if elected, i do think he will be a far more effective leader and advocate for the things about which i care.

he'll be a liberal Reagan.

 

[deep]

but what's a candidate to do?

I have already said
I get that throwing him under the bus
is not good.

I guess he did the best he could do with this speech.

If I were an Obamamaniac, I would be disappointed that he did not see this coming. That he and Michelle did not choose a little (black) church closer to home about a year to 18 months ago.

He could have still dropped in at this big church 2-3 times a year.

That would have inoculated him from these attacks.

 

[Irvine511]

I have already said
I get that throwing him under the bus
is not good.

I guess he did the best he could do with this speech.

If I were an Obamamaniac, I would be disappointed that he did not see this coming. That he and Michelle did not choose a little (black) church closer to home about a year to 18 months ago.

He could have still dropped in at this big church 2-3 times a year.

That would have inoculated him from these attacks.

with this post,

in agreement we are.

 

[deep]

ask yourself why hundreds of thousands of Republicans are voting for Hillary in the primaries.

early on Obama

was getting all the GOP votes in open primary states

because they wanted ABC

Abybody But Clinton

and I don't recall too much whining from Hillary's people.

 

[deep]

with this post,

in agreement we are.

I know I can see things your way

from your point of view

and I can agree with you

are you able to see thing from my POV?

 

[Irvine511]

are you able to see thing from my POV?

i can understand your support for Hillary,

i can understand your concerns for Obama as a candidate,

i cannot understand your "kitchen sink" approach to him these past few weeks.

 

[BVS]

i can understand your support for Hillary,

i can understand your concerns for Obama as a candidate,

i cannot understand your "kitchen sink" approach to him these past few weeks.

I second this...

 

[Irvine511]

a narrative is growing online,

that this was one of the great political speeches.

and it might not be "enough" to prevent the damage done by Wright.

but one thing is certain.

he has not been Swift Boated.

 

[deep]

he'll be a liberal Reagan.

this is so pathetic

that democrats use Reagan

you know there is a model

a very popular president that served Two terms, he was handily re-elected



he left office with 60+ approval rating

his poll numbers were always around 60%

a great communicator

the camera loved him

as did people all around the world


we have Holocaust - deniers
and we have Clinton - deniers

 

[deep]

he has not been Swift Boated.

you are so cute

if you were here

I would you.

 

[Irvine511]

this is so pathetic

that democrats use Reagan
/B]

oh for pete's sake.

it's a political figure of speech.

Reagan gave Republicans much of what they wanted.

 

[Irvine511]

you are so cute

if you were here

I would you.

to this,

respond i do not know how.

 

[deep]

oh for pete's sake.

it's a political figure of speech.

Reagan gave Republicans much of what they wanted.

and why are we caring about what Republicans want or wanted?