Obama delivers speech on race and politics! - Page 15 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-20-2008, 06:42 PM   #211
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
Hmm, I don't care much for that "she's a typical white person" comment. I don't think he believes in such stereotypes and I'm surprised he would say it that way. By person she doesn't know I assume he means African American, since he referenced that before. Is he right though, do most white people react in that way? I think it depends upon situations and surroundings that you are in.

I had a racist grandfather, unfortunately- and I talk about that with people, I don't hide it. Why should he? I'm not even saying she's racist and neither is he, if I interpret what he is saying correctly.
Using the formulation "typical _____ person" about someone from a different "_____" than you is probably not the best word choice for a politician to use (though he's talking about a relative here, which I think does make a difference), but yes, I think absolutely it's typical for white people to feel more automatic tension when approached by a black man on the street than a white one, and let's face it, that doesn't come from years of diligent comparative study of criminology stats; it's a gut-level reflex reaction. I don't think he meant it to impugn his grandmother's character at all though, and am surprised how many (white) commentators seem to have taken it that way. It's perhaps a bit like the experience most women have probably had with their parents, that Mom sometimes "gets" their brushes with sexism better than Dad does despite his good intentions--but that in no way means you love or respect your father less, or conclude that he's a loathsome, hopeless misogynist boor just because he has blind spots on some things. That's not to say he's always wrong about those things either for that matter, but there should be no shame in acknowledging that these legacies affect everybody and that discussions about them are going to call for some moral imagination from both sides sometimes.
__________________

__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 03-20-2008, 06:43 PM   #212
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,656
Local Time: 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep


I think you are old enough to remember Geraldine Ferraro

one statement reaps a whirlwind that thrashes her good name and lifetime of service ?
You mean one statement she repeated and backed up, right?
__________________

__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 03-20-2008, 06:53 PM   #213
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,974
Local Time: 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep


I think you are old enough to remember Geraldine Ferraro

one statement reaps a whirlwind that thrashes her good name and lifetime of service ?
Yeah and I hung out with Eleanor Roosevelt too deep, we had some rockin good times.

Unfortunately Ferraro also made a very similar comment about Jesse Jackson in 88 I believe, I posted it in whatever thread talked about Ferraro. I don't think her good name is thrashed personally- but I do question her judgment in what she said, and her motives and the way she thinks about this issue-and her continued refusal to just drop it, because she's still talking about it. Do I think she's racist? No Do I think Senator Obama is? No Do I think Rev Wright is? I don't have enough info at all to decide that
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 03-20-2008, 07:03 PM   #214
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 10:05 AM
I remember 84 very well. (puts walker aside)

It was a goofy statement,
pointless.


On the surface, it may be correct.

It is not possible to consider Obama without him being black.


Would one say W would not be where he is if he were black, Muslim or female?

It is easy to say W would not be where he is at, if he were not W Bush jr.

Will anyone honestly tell me that if Obama were not black he would have had this much success in this campaign?

Would Kerry have even picked him to give the keynote in 2004.

Would his speech have had the impact it did if he did not have his same life story?

Anyways, she is probably right, her motives seem suspect to me.

They were not well thought out.

She did include herself in the conversation as being the VP pick because of her gender.

I absolutely believe GHW Bush picked Clarence Thomas with much consideration to the fact that he is black.



Obama is either qualified to be a good president or he is not.
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 03-20-2008, 07:14 PM   #215
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,974
Local Time: 01:05 PM
Did Sen Obama's skin color give him the same exact advantages as GW Bush's name did? What disadvantages did Sen Obama's skin color give him and did he succeed tremendously in spite of those? Senator Obama's numerous attractive qualities and his abilities and his intellect exist regardless of his skin color and are independent of that.

Whether it was her intention or not what Ferraro said diminishes what Sen Obama has achieved. I give her the benefit of the doubt that it was not her intention.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 03-20-2008, 07:24 PM   #216
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,974
Local Time: 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep

Obama is either qualified to be a good president or he is not.
And what are the necessary qualifications? Knowledge of the issues facing us and the will and ability to improve and solve them, I think that's paramount. So where is the talk about those? Sure you certainly need very good judgment too, but all humans make mistakes-Sen Obama included. The key is to acknowledge them and learn from them.

When was the last time GW Bush ever acknowledged a mistake? Even if Barack Obama was guilty of everything under the sun he's being accused of right now, personally I still think he has better judgment than GW Bush (I feel the same about Senator Clinton)- who has been there for eight years now and was re-elected in spite of his arrogance and incompetence.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 03-20-2008, 07:29 PM   #217
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
Some people are responding 'what if HC (or John McCain for that matter) said someone is a "typical black person" for responding in a certain way to a certain situation'-regardless of the context and I know Senator Obama said that in a certain context. So what if? And why?
This is the main reason why I think "typical ______ person" isn't a well-advised formulation coming from a politician. But I think it's important to note that what he proceeded to link that phrase to wasn't some functional deficit suggesting an innate inferiority, but rather a socially consequential assumption born from inhabiting a different social status. Again, I'd personally advise against a politican using either formulation, but to my ear at least, "I don't think she has any animosity towards men, but my mother is a typical woman; if she sees a man alone with a child at the park, her reaction tends to be that something bad is going on and she reacts in a certain way" doesn't sound nearly as troubling as "My mother is a typical woman; she couldn't program a DVD player or fix a faucet to save her life."
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 03-20-2008, 07:37 PM   #218
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
Did Sen Obama's skin color give him the same exact advantages as GW Bush's name did? What disadvantages did Sen Obama's skin color give him and did he succeed tremendously in spite of those? Senator Obama's numerous attractive qualities and his abilities and his intellect exist regardless of his skin color and are independent of that.

Whether it was her intention or not what Ferraro said diminishes what Sen Obama has achieved. I give her the benefit of the doubt that it was not her intention.
Every candidate has skills and the "package" they come in.
We can only evaluate them as they are.


If Hillary were not married to Bill Clinton, would she be where she is at?
Diane Feinstein has been in the Senate longer, has skills and is well respected.
She does not have any delegates.


Would McCain have had as much political success if he were not a POW?
What are the point of these questions?

That is why I said her statement was pointless.


If any one pays attention to what I write in here,
I have always said bias exist and is a problem.
I put "racism" as one of our most serious problems.

I have also said I "won" the lottery at birth being born a white, male, straight in America.
I still believe in and support 'affirmative action'.

Does a black person, person of color, woman, gay person get as many opportunities as I do?
I don't think so.

Do I have guilt? No.

Would I like to see things more fair? Yes.

Am I inclined to vote for Obama to prove I am trying to help us all overcome these bias’?

I am not sure.

The fact that he is being given consideration as a serious candidate (in one of the two major parties)
when he has the least experience of any candidate to get that far, is saying something.

What that "something" is?
That, I am still thinking about.
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 03-20-2008, 11:21 PM   #219
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,474
Local Time: 01:05 PM
[q]The fact that he is being given consideration as a serious candidate (in one of the two major parties)
when he has the least experience of any candidate to get that far, is saying something.[/q]



i would say that his background -- being black and white, having a foreign-born father, having grown up in Hawaii, having lived abroad, and the fact that he quite clearly thinks very, very deeply and rather profoundly about difference, perception, and how different kinds of people can and do get along (perhaps even within the same body) -- does give him a refreshing perspective that is miles beyond a Connecticut blue blood who went to Yale and Harvard and claims to be "authentic" because he's got a studied Crawford, TX accent.

i think it matters that Bill Clinton came from what might be deemed 'poor white trash.' he was, you'll remember, "the man from Hope."

Hillary makes a big deal about her gender. McCain (and Kerry) make a big deal about their service.

background outside of politics and legislation does matter. and in many ways, experience and wisdom gained outside of I-495 is quite valuable.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 03-21-2008, 10:12 AM   #220
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,474
Local Time: 01:05 PM
pop quiz, y'all.

who wrote this:


[q]"God didn't call America to engage in a senseless, unjust war. . . . And we are criminals in that war. We've committed more war crimes almost than any nation in the world, and I'm going to continue to say it. And we won't stop it because of our pride and our arrogance as a nation. But God has a way of even putting nations in their place...[God will say:] And if you don't stop your reckless course, I'll rise up and break the backbone of your power."[/q]
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 03-21-2008, 10:23 AM   #221
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,656
Local Time: 12:05 PM
Damn angry negro...

I guess it was OK to say that kind of thing pre-9/11
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 03-21-2008, 10:25 AM   #222
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,140
Local Time: 06:05 PM
You've stumped me on that one, Irvine. Enlighten us
__________________
U2democrat is offline  
Old 03-21-2008, 10:26 AM   #223
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
CTU2fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5,366
Local Time: 02:05 PM
Would Hillary Clinton be where she is if she wasn't married to a former President? See we can play that game with everybody...why single out Obama.
__________________
CTU2fan is offline  
Old 03-21-2008, 10:29 AM   #224
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,474
Local Time: 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by U2democrat
You've stumped me on that one, Irvine. Enlighten us


i'll give you a hint.

Republicans/Conservatives love to point out this man as being a great american, and because they say that, that then inoculates whatever racism might be inherent in any other critical thing they say of any other black person ever.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 03-21-2008, 10:38 AM   #225
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,140
Local Time: 06:05 PM
Would it be the same man who said something or other about being judged on the content of character?
__________________

__________________
U2democrat is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com