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Old 03-19-2008, 12:23 AM   #136
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I caught the whole thing on C-span

shaky camera and all

I watched and listened to every minute of the whole hour


I have a few different opinions
some would be appreciated by his friends here

and some would receive quite the opposite reaction

the speech, first and foremost was for his base.

first thing, is to shore up the base
and then try to expand it

the speech was a success

how it played with others
I don't think it helped much at all.
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Old 03-19-2008, 12:40 AM   #137
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It may not help "with others," but as Irvine said earlier, it'd be hard to imagine him having handled the present situation much better than he did. Even if he'd settled for a one-note blistering condemnation of his former pastor, the same "others" would still have found it unconvincing.
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Old 03-19-2008, 12:46 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
the same "others" would still have found it unconvincing.


with this speech, Obama became "black" for the first time.

the reaction will say far, far more about us than it will about him.

i am more convinced than ever that he is the best person for the job.

and if the blue-collar white democrats defect to McCain, then so be it.

it will, again, be our country's loss. we'd prefer a dick-swinging inarticulate ignoramus from Texas than an effete intellectual from Massachusetts.

we reap what we sow.
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Old 03-19-2008, 12:47 AM   #139
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Originally posted by 2861U2
I wasn't impressed as you guys are, then. I wasn't fond of the fact that he was clearly reading off of teleprompters. I think a speech so important and emotional needs to be very much memorized, or with a few notecards, and looking into the camera. Constantly turning his head to the right and left to read the prompter took some of the "from the heart" effect out of it.


do you prefer the pause, the squint, the quick and pained remembering of how it was explained to him by his advisers, and then the awkwardly delivered phrase, "in other words ..."?
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Old 03-19-2008, 01:42 AM   #140
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Originally posted by Irvine511



an effete intellectual from Massachusetts.

I thought Mitt bowed out of the race already.

dbs
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:08 AM   #141
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Huckabee on all of this:

Quote:
HUCKABEE: I don't think we know. If this were October, I think it would have a dramatic impact. But it's not October. It's March. And I don't believe that by the time we get to October, this is gonna be the defining issue of the campaign, and the reason that people vote.

And one other thing I think we've gotta remember. As easy as it is for those of us who are white, to look back and say "That's a terrible statement!"...I grew up in a very segregated south. And I think that you have to cut some slack -- and I'm gonna be probably the only Conservative in America who's gonna say something like this, but I'm just tellin' you -- we've gotta cut some slack to people who grew up being called names, being told "you have to sit in the balcony when you go to the movie. You have to go to the back door to go into the restaurant. And you can't sit out there with everyone else. There's a separate waiting room in the doctor's office. Here's where you sit on the bus..." And you know what? Sometimes people do have a chip on their shoulder and resentment. And you have to just say, I probably would too. I probably would too. In fact, I may have had more of a chip on my shoulder had it been me.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:16 AM   #142
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Wow, Huck...
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:18 AM   #143
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Huckabee

Well the great speech-maker made another nice speech. Not a surprise. I was pretty impressed though.

Am I the only one who isn't bothered in the slightest by the statements being attributed to Wright? I can understand why it's wise for Obama to distance himself though. Hell hearing these things from Wright if anything raises my opinion of Obama.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:20 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2
I wasn't impressed as you guys are, then. I wasn't fond of the fact that he was clearly reading off of teleprompters. I think a speech so important and emotional needs to be very much memorized, or with a few notecards, and looking into the camera. Constantly turning his head to the right and left to read the prompter took some of the "from the heart" effect out of it.
You're reaching. Tell me the last time you saw a canidate or a president who was multi-tasking as much as these men and women are, and then memorize their speeches?

Plus I love Irvine's question...
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:00 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


and if the blue-collar white democrats defect to McCain, then so be it.

it will, again, be our country's loss. we'd prefer a dick-swinging inarticulate ignoramus from Texas than an effete intellectual from Massachusetts.

we reap what we sow.
I agree.

If Americans are going to continue to screw themselves I'm at least going to go down swinging supporting someone with the clear conscience that he's the best we've got. Gosh darn those college-educated liberals.
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:57 AM   #146
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Originally posted by CTU2fan
Am I the only one who isn't bothered in the slightest by the statements being attributed to Wright? I can understand why it's wise for Obama to distance himself though. Hell hearing these things from Wright if anything raises my opinion of Obama.
I wasn't personally bothered by any of the comments I heard, though I don't agree with or defend them. I probably disagreed most with his insinuations that AIDS is a US government plot to kill African-Americans. Not because I find it shocking that rumors to that effect do circulate in some quarters--the Tuskegee Experiment only ended in 1972 after all, and then only because the press exposed it--but because I find it disappointing that a man of Wright's educational background could be ill-informed enough on a subject as well-researched as AIDS to believe such nonsense. His bleak view of the Clinton legacy towards black Americans wasn't shocking either--far more measured black commentators have pointed out the disproportionate effects on African-Americans of Clinton's welfare reform policies and refusal to reform crack cocaine sentencing laws--but analogizing it to "doing Monica Lewinsky" was exceedingly crude and vulgar, and while it's doubtless true that "no one ever called Hillary n-----," it's not as if the woman knows nothing about what it is to be (very) publically humiliated for things she had no say in at all. I do grimace every time I hear the "chickens come home to roost" case applied to 9/11 (and I think we all know Wright hardly invented that one)--not because I reject its point that we can't afford to keep pretending the collective humiliation and grievance much of the developing world feels towards the West wouldn't poison "reasonable" peoples' goodwill towards us, but because ultimately that particular formulation of it is a defeatist and fatalistic outlook that gets us nowhere. And the "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human, God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme" rhetoric occasioned more of an eyeroll than a shudder from me (though I'm sure that wasn't the intended effect). I suppose if that came from someone wildly waving a copy of The Anarchist Cookbook I might feel differently, but when it comes from a 67-year-old black minister from a (mostly white) mainline Protestant denomination whose church runs dozens of local and international outreach ministries for everyone from cancer patients to battered women to drug addicts to prisoners, I'm pretty sure that sentiment, however misguided, grows out of sincere moral outrage at witnessing the consequences of vulnerability; not arrogance, nihilism, greed, or facile parroting of knee-jerk radical dogma.

At any rate, as you suggest, it's very obvious that those are not Barack Obama's perspectives on racism and injustice in our times.
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Old 03-19-2008, 11:15 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


You're reaching. Tell me the last time you saw a canidate or a president who was multi-tasking as much as these men and women are, and then memorize their speeches?

Plus I love Irvine's question...
I'm not reaching. I'm not saying it's a huge factor, but when you're trying to communicate something that crucial and supposedly heartfelt, it would help to look at the camera, into the peoples' eyes. Eye contact. It's a basic communication skill.
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Old 03-19-2008, 11:17 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




do you prefer the pause, the squint, the quick and pained remembering of how it was explained to him by his advisers, and then the awkwardly delivered phrase, "in other words ..."?
If you're referring to President Bush, I think he can give a darn good speech. You're describing his appearance at a typical press conference, but in a major speech (SOTU, post 9-11, etc), he does alright.
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Old 03-19-2008, 11:27 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2


I'm not reaching. I'm not saying it's a huge factor, but when you're trying to communicate something that crucial and supposedly heartfelt, it would help to look at the camera, into the peoples' eyes. Eye contact. It's a basic communication skill.
I think he's making eye contact with those in the room, rather than a camera. This would have been the wrong setting to stare into a camera the whole time. If you close your eyes, or you were blind, you would know he's speaking to you.
Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2

If you're referring to President Bush, I think he can give a darn good speech.
Now, do the same for a Bush speech, you'll find most of the time, he's not talking to you, but at you. Bias aside, I don't think there would be many speech givers that would ever cite Bush as a great orator.
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Old 03-19-2008, 11:40 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

I wasn't personally bothered by any of the comments I heard, though I don't agree with or defend them. I probably disagreed most with his insinuations that AIDS is a US government plot to kill African-Americans. Not because I find it shocking that rumors to that effect do circulate in some quarters--the Tuskegee Experiment only ended in 1972 after all, and then only because the press exposed it--

My Dad and I were just talking about that in relation to Wright's accusations.

While we disagree that the government created AIDS to infect black people...it is important to know the context of the Tuskegee Study and what he charged is not entirely out of left field.
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