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Old 11-04-2004, 04:17 PM   #76
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Originally posted by disco2blue
Hello GibsonGirl, I would like to thank you for the lesson in quotation.
Also, I would like to apologize if I become seemingly angry at you at times, but this is what politics does.

Also I think we are encountering a problem - the division between conservatives and liberals is too black and white. I don't care if homosexuals marry, and I'm pro-choice for the most part. I also think Stem Cell research should be given more freedom. You see what I mean? Because I say I support Bush, or certain aspects of Conversatism, it does not mean I can be lumped into these assumptions. I only think that structure, integrity and purpose are the only ways to run an effective society, if you keep on blurring the lines, with no definite boundaries or moral code, then you have a very weak solidarity and it is then simply about the individual, not about what's best for society or the country. You need rules, just like a sport needs guidelines to assure there is no chaos - you can't just go around doing what you want when you want because 'I feel like it', could you imagine anarchy?
Also, GibsonGirl, to say that Liberals/Mooore/Democrats are the exact opposite of hateful, scornful people - it is very upsetting to me because you obviously did not really take any points from what I was saying about the hostility and judgement factors that I clearly stated - Myself incurring such hatred, and the threads of hatred started by Liberals - these cannot be denied, but I guess they sure as hell can be ignored.

I do not think I can write more about politics for much longer, it is a very hopeless feeling to not get across to people, and it is very depressing to know that human beings are placing ideals, ideas, and personal ego over basic respect for others.

Nicholas

zoou2@hotmail.com
Hey, Nicholas, I agree with you totally. I also think this is why conservatives are best in government. I can't imagine a world ruled by liberals! It'd be anarchy and chaos.
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Old 11-04-2004, 04:22 PM   #77
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U2Traveller, just in case you didn't see it? I wrote about some stats and facts about Canadain quality of life just a little earlier, a little further up, I think you may like a very candid and different perspective.

-- Nicholas --

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Old 11-04-2004, 04:58 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Traveller
I don't know where these people are getting statistics or why Canadians think they have a better quality of life, but I think it's wrong.
From the most comprehensive UN study, which has been quoted here ad nauseum by Republican posters when the USA was above Canada.

Watch for Canada to rise even higher this year, as Bush tanks your dollar and ours is skyrocketing.

There are 6 billion people in the world, and when I go to their lands, I can proudly say I am a Canadian, and not a single one considers me nor my country a threatening, arrogant bully.
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Old 11-04-2004, 05:04 PM   #79
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In spite of everything, I still proudly say I'm an American

I guess I'm wrong to feel that way

People feel that way about my country, but there's really nothing threatening or arrogant about me . I feel sorry for someone who would make that sort of supposition w/ out getting to know a person first.

I don't mean to direct that at you anitram, so pls don't take it that way . I'm just picking up on that portion of what you said.
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Old 11-04-2004, 05:07 PM   #80
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Look, I agree with what you are saying.

But you need to look at reality - go abroad, and see what people will say to you. I have a North American accent and when you go abroad, people immediately assume you are an American. I always try to correct that notion immediately, because believe me, the service you receive is 200 times better immediately. I cannot tell you how many times I've been to Europe and been told "You're not American? Oh, thank goodness!"
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Old 11-04-2004, 05:26 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by disco2blue
The missile defence plan is not that simple to generalize so negatively. To believe that this concept of defence is not essential is dangerous. North Korea and Iran, and potentially several other organized countries, despise our 'sinner' culture and only want complete destruction of those who are not them (once again similar to extreme Leftists), it is not that easy and it is not that simple to condemn the entire idea of defence.
While defense is a concern, the method by which some are pursuing preventative measures is very ill-considered. This is evident in the fact that an archaic and dated program was brought to the table to address a perceived escalation. To genuinely accept the application of ideas out of their intended context is an inherently more dangerous proposition.

At its core, that's the predominant point of concern with respect to the current iteration of the conservative party in Canada. Falling back on solutions to problems that no longer exist is not the most productive way to approach the issue of defense. I'm not proposing that the Alliance should strive to change their platform, but manifesting new ideas might foster more success for Harper's party in the polls. Having lived in Alberta for most of my life and Texas for a few years, I do believe my insight is not entirely unfounded on this topic.

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Old 11-04-2004, 05:34 PM   #82
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. I cannot tell you how many times I've been to Europe and been told "You're not American? Oh, thank goodness!"
Anitram, you are exactly the type of person I despise - a person who think the racism against Americans is justified. You think that people with that kind of thinking are really cool, huh? So I guess Paul Bernardo, school girl killer, is better than the average 'American', because he's Canadian. You think that is a ridiculous example? Well it is completely in balance with the type of stupidity and ignorance you speak about around the world, and people like YOU perpetuate it. Sick freak.

--- Nicholas ---

zoou2@hotmail.com
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Old 11-04-2004, 05:41 PM   #83
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Cujo, once again thank you for your input, and you put things across very well and professionally (perhaps unlike my last post scolding Anitram, I just completely lost my temper).
I do believe you have very well-founded views on the missile defence issue, probably better than mine, but yes my most primitive notion is that defence should be done in such a way as to not cause more harm than good, but nonetheless be at the forefront of our concerns. Afterall, I do realize that a race for arms and nuclear programs can do nothing at all positive for the world, but at the same time, the technology is out there, everyone is capable because the knowledge has been eternalized - we need to make sure we can stop a random, crazed attack by those who believe they are going to heaven in a suicidal glory of martyrdom.
Anyway, thanks for you posts, I enjoy them!

--- Nicholas ---

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Old 11-04-2004, 05:44 PM   #84
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If you had read Anitram's post without a malicious pretense, you would probably notice that she was explaining a perception that is prevalent outside of North America. She did not assign value to that belief, or imply support of it. Disco2blue, I suggest before you continue making further assumptions and disparaging comments about longstanding members, you should actually read their posts. It's a courtesy that everyone deserves. Even those that are heavy on the rhetoric (myself included).



It's not my attempt to be confrontational or show disrespect, sometimes the nature of internet posting removes the inflection of one's voice. On a related note... right about now, we could all use some kraft dinner.



Edit: I had not seen your response prior to my post, but I think you cleared up your post about anitram to an extent. We both have experienced the danger of impulse posting it seems.
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Old 11-04-2004, 06:20 PM   #85
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A question.

Why when someone from any other country says "I would like to move to the US" do so many people offer encouragement and support, yet if a citizen of the US says "I would like to move to <insert country here>" the same people call that person a wuss, whimp, whiner, spineless, etc? Really. Can someone tell me what the big difference is (without the jingoistic crap, please)?
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Old 11-04-2004, 06:25 PM   #86
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disco2blue, what the hell is the matter with you? Did you not read the part in my post where I said I agree with Mrs. Springsteen that generalizations are not right?

But thanks for the personal attack. You come across as a charming guy.
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Old 11-04-2004, 06:53 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by disco2blue


Anitram, you are exactly the type of person I despise - a person who think the racism against Americans is justified. You think that people with that kind of thinking are really cool, huh? So I guess Paul Bernardo, school girl killer, is better than the average 'American', because he's Canadian. You think that is a ridiculous example? Well it is completely in balance with the type of stupidity and ignorance you speak about around the world, and people like YOU perpetuate it. Sick freak.

--- Nicholas ---

zoou2@hotmail.com


Now listen here!!

What the hell makes you think you can come in here and act like you own this god damn place? Where the fuck do you get the balls?

anitram is one of the most respected posters on this whole damn board. You have what...8 posts? anitram has definitely been consistent and been right on the money with most things he/she has said.

You took that post completely out of context and flew off the handle at someone whom I have the utmost respect for. You waltzed right on in here and started acting like you own this god damned place, like we should respect you and agree with every thing that comes out of your fat mouth just because you've graced us with your presence.

YOU are exactly a person I despise. Idiotic and prejudiced. Now go somewhere else, and don't show your ass back in here before you learn to fucking read, dipshit.

You owe anitram a PUBLIC apology.

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Old 11-04-2004, 07:08 PM   #88
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I retract all comments of personal attack, and I deeply apologize for reacting the way I did to anitram.

I joined this site because I was a U2 fanatic first and foremost, but when I see the injustice of such anti-american threads, I was compelled to post. Mistake.

Hopefully, if I'm allowed to post any more, I can simply talk about B sides, albums, tours, etc.

My girlfriend is American, originally from Tennesse. She should have the right to travel the world without people hating her because of her government. Obviously most people think not. That's okay though, she's strong, she doesn't try hide the presence of her American blood. I commend her.

Still, when all is said and done, the personal attack was uncalled for against anitram, and I really do feel terrible that I broke character and let my anger spill over. I wish I did not type those things, but it is too late, but I'm the one who has to live with the fact I acted like those whom I despise - that's the worst feeling of all, and anitram, I wish you the best in life.

I hope my apology can be accepted.

--- Nicholas ---

zoou2@hotmail.com
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Old 11-04-2004, 07:10 PM   #89
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Old 11-04-2004, 07:10 PM   #90
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FYMers;

ENOUGH.

disco2blue, your comment was altogether too personal and uncalled for. I won't force you to apologise, however, should you address this (as it already has caused a stir) I would recommend it be addressed via an apology. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

DaveC, your reaction does not help things either. Please control your temper or this thead WILL go to hell.

I will ask BOTH of you to keep a cordial tone. I will also ask ALL posters to keep a cool-headed approach to their debate/venting/rants. I don't care what you rant about, as long as you are respectful.

I have issued far too many warnings this evening. If you ignore my warnings, this thread will be closed forthwith.

Ant.

P.S - Edited to say thanks for the apologies. That is most welcomed. However, I stand by what I said earlier. Will everyone PLEASE calm down.
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