NYC subway shut down for six months -- where was the security?

[sharky]

So the subway line Aaron [hawk269] and I ride everyday has been shut down -- there was a fire in a signal switching room that controls the line. It's going to be a major headache getting to and from work for AT LEAST the next six months. And all this while the MTA just passed another fare hike.

The thing that bothers me the most is that they are blaming this fire on a homeless person who set a shopping cart full of wood on fire to stay warm and it caught the control room on fire. So after all this BS from Bush and the Dept. of Homeland Security about making this city safer, we found a MAJOR hole in our subway system -- if a homeless person can shut down a subway line for six months, imagine what would happen if terrorists got their hands on our systems. Shut the lines down, pump tunnels with chemicals, you name it. This is why people in NYC hate Bush -- we knew he was lying when he said he would give this city money to protect it. We knew the Republican mayor was lying when he said we were protected. And our Republican governor won't give us the money to update our system when we give the state a majority of its tax revenue, causing those fare increases and the lack of money to protect the system. In NYC, we are not protected. And what's even worse is that it's going to take longer to fix the line than it did on 9/11. And this time, we're getting no help from anyone.

link

 

[joyfulgirl]

That's unbelievable. Having lived in NYC for 15 years myself, I remember what it was like when the whole day revolved around the trains running regularly. To have your primary line shut down for even a short time is a major headache.

Way to go, Homeland Security.

 

[hiphop]

Am I mistanken if I figure the Homeland Sec is just as unprofessional as the TSA?

 

[Dreadsox]

Not if you believe everything the way it is presented in here.

 

[sharky]

Not if you believe everything the way it is presented in here.

So tell me how the Homeland Security Dept. has made the largest public transportation system in the country safer? We all hear about dirty bombs in the subways and blowing up tunnels and Homeland Security was going to make sure we were protected. How has the Homeland Security Dept kept its promise to New York to make sure we're protected? There are subway lines running under major institutions in this city -- Times Square, Rockefeller Center, NYSE -- and the system was corrupted by a homeless man with a shopping cart. At least that's what we're being told. How do we know that it wasn't a terrorist testing the vulnerability of the system considering they still haven't caught the person who did this and have no idea where to start.

It disgusts me that the president's brother gets more money per capita for people in Florida than for New Yorkers when it's once again been proven that we need this money more to make this city safer.

 

[Mark Freedman]

Maybe this is the proverbial "person killed crossing street, time for a traffic light" situation? Maybe NOW someone will REALLY focus on this?

I don't count on it.

 

[beli]

Transit systems are the weakest point in any city. Ask any military person.

There is no financially feasible way to secure train systems. It can be done but then the cost of a ticket might work out to about a couple of thousand dollars a ride ie not realistic.

It's unfortunate that your train system is going to be down for such a long time but this incident has very little to do with security issues.

Train systems are not secure. Never have been, and short of an astronomical investment by governments, never will be.





peace.

 

[Dreadsox]

Well, Sharky lets start with your title. In reading the article it could be six months, but it said three to six months.

If it were a terrorist and they did catch them, I am glad they kept it to themselves.

I understand the difficulty of the subway system and keeping it safe. Here in Boston we also have the main highway completely underground. No vehicle searches of any kind going in and out. I pray they are using some time of detection device.

Do I think homeland security should be hung out because of this incident? NO. Do I think they could do better? Yes.

I am not running around blaming Bush for a fire in a subway though. So clearly we have a different way of viewing and presenting the facts.

 

[U2Kitten]

I know a guy in NYC who is also upset about this, but he (a member of the Green party) only blames bad luck and circumstances. Why must everything be Bush's fault? Look at it this way- the homeless man was not a threat, so he was not hauled away. Chances are, if it had been a terrorist with a bunch of chemicals he would have been. In the nearly 4 years since 9-11 there have been no additional terrorist attacks on NYC despite many rumors. How do you know they haven't been doing their job and we just don't know about it because it was done undercover as not to spread panic? Also, what about Port Authority, where's their share of the blame? Don't they have cameras to watch and prevent stuff like that?

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Look at it this way- the homeless man was not a threat, so he was not hauled away. Chances are, if it had been a terrorist with a bunch of chemicals he would have been.

Is it beyond a potential terrorist's capabilities to disguise himself as a homeless person? I mean presumably they don't always walk around carrying buckets of chemicals and a flashing neon sign saying "I am a terrorist."

 

[sharky]

I understand what you're saying Dread but after all this talk from Bush during the election about terrorism and keeping this country safe, we can't even protect a signal station in the subway. I agree with beli, this system is huge and there is no way to protect every single entrance. But a signal station is the heart of a subway line -- why don't we have security there?

And what makes it worse is that it goes beyond Bush. Pataki is the Republican governor and gets most of the money for the state budget from New York City but won't allocate any of it for the subway system. Bloomberg is a Republican and a normal subway rider and he didn't force the MTA to answer questions about its budget before hiking fares again last month. And the head of the MTA was appointed by Republicans.

I just don't like the fact that the Republicans ran by using images of 9/11 and terrorism and kept saying we were safer and we aren't even close. And the people in charge are people who won because they hyped up how they kept the city safe -- Bush did it and Bloomberg was nearly appointed by Rudy when he left office.

Right now, they are saying it's six to nine months to get the subway up and running normally but fixing that signal station is going to take three to five years! My commute has gone from 20 minutes to at least 40 minutes. And that's not even the worst thing about this problem.

 

[sharky]

Kitten -- I understand what you're saying. Perhaps it may just be circumstance, but I ride that line everyday to go to work downtown. The station in question is the Chambers St./World Trade Center station. It's three blocks from the American Stock Exchange, is connected to the new World Trade Center PATH station and parallel to one of the largest construction projects in the country right now. You would think at least that station would be better protected.

 

[pax]

Which train line? I know you live in BKLYN and I have friends there...I usually take the Q from Port Authority to Park Slope when I visit.

 

[nbcrusader]

Is it beyond a potential terrorist's capabilities to disguise himself as a homeless person? I mean presumably they don't always walk around carrying buckets of chemicals and a flashing neon sign saying "I am a terrorist."

But the minute you increase your scrutiny of the homeless, you open up an entirely different bag of political mess.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

But the minute you increase your scrutiny of the homeless, you open up an entirely different bag of political mess.

damn those politically correct lefties! they're putting the safety of the country at risk!

 

[nbcrusader]

damn those politically correct lefties! they're putting the safety of the country at risk!

That wasn't intended as a left/right comment. It is a reality we should be able to discuss.


We have a similar situation with border security. The same lack of security which Sharky describes exists on the US borders. However, to increase the focus on illegal border crossings draws a larger political mess.

 

[verte76]

I'm sure my sisters in NYC are absolutely thrilled over the situation with the subways. At least they left Manhattan.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

January 26, 2005 -- Service on the A and C line subway will be fully restored within the next six to nine months - not the five years previously feared - with more trains expected to be back starting next week, officials said yesterday.
"We are going to do everything humanly possible to get service back," said Transit Authority president Larry Reuter.

Officials said the affected lines would be 80 percent restored in just three months

I, too, was baffled by this incident. The initial reports about this fire said that the C line could be shut down for as many as 5 years. I was shocked not that someone could get that close... someone can always get close to things, no matter how tight the security. That's just a fact of living in a free and open society. What shocked me was that there wasn't a quicker response. The fire started when a homeless man set some debris in a shopping cart on fire, in order to keep warm in the extreme cold that has gripped the new york area over the past few weeks. He wasn't in the room, he was just near the room. The fire got out of control and eventually spread to the relay boxes, destroying them. One would think there would be cameras watching these imporant rooms so that an incident like this couldn't happen. I mean... everyone knows there are homeless who live in the subway paths. If you believe some of the stories, there are people living down there who haven't been above ground in years. The system is SOOO big that it's impossiable to watch every corner. But these boxes need to be protected. And obviously you're not going to station an officer in the middle of the subway path. That's just silly. But at the very least, how about a few security cameras watching these things?

There is blame to be placed... blame for not thinking about it. I blame the MTA... not Bloomberg, Pataki or Bush. The MTA should know that these equipment rooms with the signal relays needed more protection. Every political type... be him a republican or a democrat talks about chemical attacks on the subway stations, trains, etc. They talk about bombs going into stations, etc. They keep talking about stations and trains because that's where the people are. And there have been improvements in those areas, both visable and hidden from the public eye. But obviously more needs to be done. Much more. The money was thrown out at terrorist acts of death, distruction and devestation... no thought was put into terrorist acts of inconvenience. That's what this fire is. It's an inconvenience. No one died. No one is going to die. It's an extreme annoyance for those who take the line every day, and it is something that if done on a greater scale, i.e. all the relay boxes taken out for ALL the subway lines, could cripple new york's mass transit system. They need to address the situation, and they need to address it now. But let's not crucify the republicans for this. The democrats sure as shit weren't worried about relay boxes either. The people who deal with the system every day needed to bring up the need for protecting the relay boxes. They didn't. THEY are to blame. Fuck the MTA.