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Old 02-04-2003, 09:28 PM   #61
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Originally posted by The Absent One


Group Hug Everyone.
The world is going to pot and we may not have long left.
Sudenly 'Walking to Hawaii' by Tom Mcrae is looking worryingly prophetic


We'd better make the most of the time we have then!
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Old 02-04-2003, 09:32 PM   #62
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Even the 6000 people killed in the World Trade Centre attacks is small fry
ahhhhh no! thats a bit much my friend!!!!
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Old 02-04-2003, 09:41 PM   #63
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Dont misquote me.
I said '..COMPARED to....'

I made absolutely NO reference to the 6000 in the wto being a small number. Its massive and tragic.

Read things properly before making non-sensical comments in future please.
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Old 02-04-2003, 09:44 PM   #64
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Make the most of it? What do you have in mind?
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Old 02-04-2003, 09:45 PM   #65
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Watch the temper, boy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel
I've heard some people out there say we should just nuke them right now.
If I hear ONE more comment about how we should turn the whole Middle East into a "sea of glass," I will throw myself out a window.
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Old 02-04-2003, 09:46 PM   #66
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Make the most of it? What do you have in mind?
You'll see.
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Old 02-04-2003, 09:50 PM   #67
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I think a little less than 3,000 died in the WTC. No need to exaggerate the figures...

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Old 02-04-2003, 09:53 PM   #68
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I'm a fatalist when it comes to all of this. Whatever happens will happen, and it is perfectly clear that we have no choice in any of this.

I look back to history, and tumultuous mass murders are terribly common. However, the world goes on, and we just have another shameful chapter in our world's history.

Again, let's hope that all of this is sabre rattling--which Republicans are actually terribly notorious for.

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Old 02-04-2003, 09:55 PM   #69
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Well i wasnt exagerating the figures for any benefit to my argument. Your corrected figures make it even stronger! So thanks.
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Old 02-04-2003, 10:04 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Absent One
Dont misquote me.
I said '..COMPARED to....'

I made absolutely NO reference to the 6000 in the wto being a small number. Its massive and tragic.

Read things properly before making non-sensical comments in future please.
First.....

Your post was excellent. I believe you have an excellent grasp of the situation, and your post conveys that.

Your number "6000" is too high. I believe it was closer to 3,000. Then again I may be mistaken.

As to Iraq having nuclear capabilities......Iraq successfully built a Nuclear device sometime around August of 1990. The problem was that it was too big to put onto a warhead to launch into Israel as was the plan if Bagdhad were threatened by coalition forces. They were missing one component, fissile material. UN inspectors estimate that at that time Iraq was only one year away from building a successful bomb.

Between the Gulf War and Inspections through 1998, his program was set back.

1994 there were 2,000 engineers and 12,000 workers trying to build the bomb. This was an expansion of the Iraqi program since the gulf war. These numbers come from the Director of the Program who defected from Iraq.

There is plenty of Uranium in Iraq for them to use, they just need to turn it into weapons grade material. If he kicked out the inspectors in 1998, it appears that possibly as early as 1999 the uranium enrichment program may have been up and running.

US Intelligence services estimate that the Iraqi's will have a complete bomb sometime as early as 2004 or as late as 2009.

German Intelligence agencies estimated in 2001, that Iraq was 3 to six years away. That places 2004-2007 as possible dates.
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Old 02-04-2003, 10:41 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by meegannie
If I hear ONE more comment about how we should turn the whole Middle East into a "sea of glass," I will throw myself out a window.
Ugh, really, no kidding.

Angela
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Old 02-04-2003, 10:47 PM   #72
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Watch the temper, boy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel
I've heard some people out there say we should just nuke them right now.
If I hear ONE more comment about how we should turn the whole Middle East into a "sea of glass," I will throw myself out a window.


I really hope you do not think that is what I said!
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Old 02-04-2003, 11:01 PM   #73
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Your quote is quite interesting Dreadsox. I don't Sadaam is the only regime to use such tactics. Where was the US 1000's were killed in Africa, damn I can't think of the country, the Congo or Ruwhanda. The dictator killed hundreds of thousands of oppostion, only I believe it was more of a genocide than political.
It almost sounds like Bono's diatribe on Enniscillian(spelling), about "taking a man from his bed and gunning him down in front of his wife and children". We didn't go after the IRA, no we negotiated. I understand that many feel the time to negotiate is over, but NO NUKES.

This issue makes the subject of War or Nay, obsolete in its depth of evil.
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Old 02-04-2003, 11:02 PM   #74
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The_Absent_One,

"For a war to be viable it has to achieve 3 things. It has to prevent greater loss of life and destruction that it causes, not subject the local population (that is supposedly being liberated) to deadly radiation or mass slaughter from invasion or bombing, and reduce the threat of future terrorist attacks."

Saddam has caused the death of 1.7 million people over the past 20 years. A WMD attack successfully carried out on a large population center by Iraq could kill hundreds of thousands of people if not millions. The History of Saddams regime and the potential destruction Iraq could cause once they have successful means of delivery and distribution of WMD weapons to large population centers outside its borders, will produce a staggering number of potential loss of life over the next decade if action is not taken to prevent this.

Invasion of Iraq meets all three of your criteria. The number of civilians that would die in an invasion of Iraq is a small fraction compared to the number that Saddam has already killed and the number that could potentially die if Saddam remains in power for a decade or more and improves his WMD capability. In addition the USA will not be using radiation or slaughtering civilians in an invasion. Everything will be done to keep civilians losses to a minimum. The greater number of Precision Guided Munitions in the US arsonal will help to keep Iraqi civilian losses low. There will be a temporary increase in terrorism initially, but once the 3 week war is over, and the Iraqi people are liberated and able to speak freely, and people worldwide begin to see the benefit to the Iraqi people and more of the horrors of Saddam's regime, this will help to disperse feelings and idea or desires for terrorism in the Arab world. In addition, Israel will be more likely to make certain consessions with Saddam gone as well which will certainly dampen the desire for terrorism among most Arabs. Finally all the terrorism and revolution fears that were speculated before the 1991 Gulf War, never happened once the war was underway.
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Old 02-04-2003, 11:06 PM   #75
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Originally posted by STING2

Saddam has caused the death of 1.7 million people over the past 20 years.
See, this is the kind of unfactual information we do not need. If you recap how you arrived at this number it becomes plain that you blame deaths on Saddam that he had nothing to do with.

Iran sent their own old people and children into battle. Saddam did not deliberately target them. The blame for alot of the Iranian deaths in the Iran-Iraq war lies, lo and behold, not only on IRAN, but ALSO THE USA!
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