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Old 01-09-2005, 06:15 AM   #46
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oh wait, liquidate humanity?
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Old 01-09-2005, 06:16 AM   #47
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reminds of their sick celebrating after 9/11
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Old 01-09-2005, 08:25 AM   #48
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It's the same old scapegoating the Jews deal again, only now they have to claim it's a U.S. -Jewish thing. A new twist on an ancient and unfortunate prejudice.
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Old 01-09-2005, 03:21 PM   #49
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Check the quote, the Zionists are still in there, its just your run of the mill Arab Street paranoid anti-semitism.
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Old 01-10-2005, 05:57 AM   #50
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This thread would be more reputable if we could have stuck to the history of nuclear testing, the effects on the environment and the peoples of the SE Asian Islands which have been devastated by blatant misuse of nuclear testing over the decades in the area by the USA, France and others instead of this turning into another rant against the Arab media.

Ranting and raving about those you have demonstrated over and over again that you don't like is no better than what you claim that they do to others.

When does all the animosity stop and one side becomes the better one and stop spreading the animosity?

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Old 01-10-2005, 06:08 AM   #51
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The thread started as a commentary on Arab media?

It seems that the ranting shifted to question the actions of the US.
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Old 01-10-2005, 07:57 AM   #52
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Quote:
Ranting and raving about those you have demonstrated over and over again that you don't like is no better than what you claim that they do to others.
Two questions, firstly "who" is it that I don't like and secondly how is pointing to a quote explicitly refered to in post one introducing animosity into the mix?

The goon was blaming the tsunami on the Jews, Hindus and Americans and this is a flawed statement that has nothing to do with nuclear testing and the environment and everything to do with state controlled media outlets fostering hatred against "the great satans" to keep their own populations rage away from their kleptocratic leaders. You cannot create an earthquake of this magnitude using nuclear weapons in any of the worlds arsenels, the ammount of energy in them is minute compared to the billions of tonnes of rock being heaved by plate tectonics; like comparing a firecracker to a tonne of dynamite.

Pointing this out is not the same as saying that the Jews, Americans and Hindus are trying to liquidate humanity - now if I had said that Pakistan and Iran had planted nuclear weapons on the sea floor to test their Islamic bombs effectiveness in preparation to exterminate christian babies then that would be no better than those who would make and distribute such views but that is not what I said and the fact remains that a reasonable ammount of the Arab media exists in an inverted reality where the lot of 1.2 billion Muslims in the world is governed by a few secretive Jewish overlords. I doubt that most people who live in these countries believe this tripe - are these the people who I am "against", the victims of this vile propaganda? Is that no different than saying that those who made "Outfoxed" bear a hatred towards Fox News watching individuals?

Quotes in context is not ranting and raving and I find that characterisation misguided. Pointing out that there is massive anti-semitism that is fostered by the political and religious leadership in the Arab and Islamic world is also not ranting or raving, it is a sad fact that should be acknowledged and dealt with in a proper manner by dialogue rather than swept under the carpet so that we may plead ignorance when those hatreds boil over in violence. Too many here see fit to say that only their own view of the world is right and refuse to have it challenged, to that I invite people to challenge my views with evidence and show me condemnations of anti-semitism from within the Arab world, show me the vast majority of Palestinians renounce violence and give support for a two state solution, show me the United Nations solving disputes and creating lasting peace - not merely upholding an unstable status quo, show me a world where leaders are reallly interested in peace and prosperity and dictators abandon their despotic ways and let their people live free and happy lives by their own volition. I would be immensely happy if you did show me these things - it would be better to live in a world like that and be wrong than to have the world be a place where things are fucked up and people simply ignore.

I see things this way
> Human beings are all more or less the same on a biological level, there are races and variation but our similarities far outweigh our differences.

> Fundamental human rights do not exist unless they are accepted or enforced, these rights trancend both society and culture and can be derived from agreeable logical principles - the reason that greivous violations occur in the world is because mankind is neither agreeable or logical when it comes to maintaining power and ruling over others be it slaves or wives.

> We all are for the most part are born with the potential to do great things but through mostly circumstance and sometimes choice the probability of that ever happening is very, very, very infinitesimally small (consider Josef Stalin's origins and the role that he casts in history, very rare occurance for such a man both in background and vile spirit to rise to power and shape the world but it does on occasion happen).

> Man inhabits this small world, we will one day leave the cradle for greater things but in order to do this we must break down the barriers that seperate us. Barriers of poverty, nation and religon will have to be abandoned - this cannot occur until technology is both at the right stage and distributed evenly. The greatest sources of environmental degradation is poverty. Why aren't we cleaning up poverty

> Mankind will survive and flourish and the Earth will survive in the long run.

I guess I am a hater unless I join in the "I will bash America for what it has done and unless it lives up to my own set of impossible standards that no other actor has to accept then I will continue to bash it" parade

Nuclear tests happen; after the war all of the great powers were doing them to learn about these terrible weapons; did they misjudge the long term effects of these weapons in the beginning - yes. Does this make the decision to test those weapons wrong - in that it is a bit more ambiguous because of the benefits yielded, the knowledge and skills thate were developed that have applications that go beyone wiping out millions of human beings in a single foul flash of gamma radiation and ensuing firestorm. I would lean towards saying that tests were justified however there should have been more care directed towards the radiation exposure on those involved and the environment, today ignorance of the risks is no longer an excuse.
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Old 01-10-2005, 08:41 PM   #53
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great post, AW.

i find it hard to believe you were born in 1986. let me know when you publish your first book and chair a department.
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Old 01-10-2005, 09:06 PM   #54
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I blame the weblogs

Managing to maintain a healthy distance between my two main interests is generally good; the dichotomy between science and politics is great, if ever I get really pissed off at one I can escape into the other. If I have trouble writing a post then I turn around and do some physics or geology. The greatest danger is when science and politics mix, from eugenics to the sham that was nuclear winter politically inspired science is just junk science.
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Old 01-10-2005, 09:14 PM   #55
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i hear you, i have a blog addiction as well.

but seriously, you've got some great skills -- it appears as if you're headed for a career in academics, and that sounds like it would suit you very well. lots of luck (it can be a brutal world ... i was going to do American Studies, then decided not to, went into television, and am now wondering if i shouldn't go back to grad school ... oh, what to do, what to do ...)
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Old 01-10-2005, 09:36 PM   #56
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http://canterbury.cyberplace.org.nz/...nuchealth.html

http://www.bikiniatoll.com/

It's for people like those above and their futures which have been adversely affected by nuclear testing that I'm concerned about.

The history of France and the USA with nuclear testing in SE Asia is a horrendous history which the world should know about.

And try to prevent from ever happening again.
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Old 01-10-2005, 09:56 PM   #57
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It is a history that the world knows a great deal about, in fact of all the atomic programs it is those of the USA and UK that get the most exposure as nobody gives a stuff about the damage done by Soviet and Chinese tests, thanks to a popular backlash against these tests the USA and to a lesser extent France cleaned up their act significantly, this is a good thing in preventing atmospheric tests but bad in that it prevents the development of smaller nuclear weapons (I would rather see an arsenel of tactical nukes than armageddon inducing devices). I can only hope that the same ammount of pressure is put upon countries like Iran and North Korea not to conduct tests in an unsafe manner that is placed upon western nations.

p.s. Great link Jamila, http://www.bikiniatoll.com/ . the "What about radiation on Bikini Atoll" section, it dispells some myths regarding the long term effects of nuclear tests.
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Old 01-11-2005, 12:06 AM   #58
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Lets look at some facts:
In south east Asia, one of the poorest regions in the world an unfortunate thing happend. The Earths plates shifted ( ie an earthquake) and rose a good 30 metres above where they usually sat, this caused a Tsunami. The Tsunami then belted the shit through that particular region killing over 100,000 people.

This is not the time to worry about pride, sacrifice it to do what is right: get compassionate towards those who lost their lives, their family, friends, homes, and all they worked to contribute to the world.
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Old 01-11-2005, 12:19 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
The thread started as a commentary on Arab media?

It seems that the ranting shifted to question the actions of the US.
True. I may have been asking a little too much when I asked for an explanation about how the US could possibly be responsible for this awful disaster. Again, I don't believe we would have much sanity to "take responsibility" for this catastrophe. I was, and still am, curious as to how the Middle East would play the tape on how America is "responsible."
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Old 01-11-2005, 08:17 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jamila
And try to prevent from ever happening again.
Prevent tectonic plate movement?
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