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Old 01-04-2005, 07:18 PM   #16
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hiroshima. nagasaki.
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Old 01-04-2005, 07:19 PM   #17
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Old 01-04-2005, 07:36 PM   #18
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That nuclear testing used the "NIMBY" principle -- Not In My Back Yard.

I don't think the testing caused the earthquake by itself, but it could have made it happen sooner or possibly more strongly. But that isn't what the telecasts in question are implying...they are implying that the West, specifically the US and the Israelis caused it. And a few commentators/holy men/whatever the hell are releasing comments strangely similar to Jerry Falwells comments post 9/11...

Nutjobs all over this weird world of ours.
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Old 01-04-2005, 07:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra
That nuclear testing used the "NIMBY" principle -- Not In My Back Yard.

Unfortunately yes. I can distinctly recall a placard held at an Australian protest against the French testing in the area.

"Yoplait in your own back yard"
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Old 01-04-2005, 07:52 PM   #20
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Yes, of course. Earth science is sufficiently simple that one can calculate the exact effects a large explosion would have on tectonic plates 50 years into the future.

[/sarcasm]
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Old 01-04-2005, 08:03 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer
Yes, of course. Earth science is sufficiently simple that one can calculate the exact effects a large explosion would have on tectonic plates 50 years into the future.

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No one said that, dear.
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Old 01-05-2005, 02:57 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by beli
Before this thread turns into another Middle Eastern hate thread.....

I had also heard that nuclear testing had damaged the tectonic plates. No mention of which countrys testing caused the damage but it is feasible. The Earth is one planet. The plates do rub against each other. It is possible that nuclear testing caused the plates to move.
that's a wise point
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Old 01-05-2005, 03:24 AM   #23
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nuclear testing is often blamed for extreme weather - more than just physical things like the tectonic plates moving.

last time i heard claims like this was after the testing at mururoa atoll - if i remember correctly there was extreme weather after that happened that people were claiming was because of the tests.
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Old 01-05-2005, 04:34 AM   #24
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I really think an article needed to be provided to give us some substance on which to have an intelligent discussion on this matter.

I am going to agree with beli and the others here who have raised the U.S.' historical testing of atomic and nuclear weapons in the larger Pacific area as in other areas (like the Caribbean sea area) during the 60 some years of these known energy sources.

Micronesia, the Bikini Islands and the Marshall Islands also stand out in my memory as being a scourge on the U.S.' consciousness for the very destructive effect testing had on the islands and the people of these countries.

The residual effects years later of possible effects of the loosening and/or the deterioration of the earth's inner core couldn't be known then, but there were enough critics of nuclear testing at its infancy (like Albert Einstein and the creator of the atomic bomb - I forgot his name) that should have concerned nations like the U.S. from further testing over the years.

Russia, China, India and Pakistan(?) all have also tested these bombs in the Pacific area, but the U.S. - as the creator of this energy source - had the responsibility to make sure it was proceeding humanistically in its development of this technology.

It did not - and now is fair game for criticism on this issue. (irregardless of the aid that is given now to the area)

Sorry - I tend to lend some validity to a report that we have been given no link to.

THE GOAL IS SOUL....
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Old 01-05-2005, 05:11 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra


No one said that, dear.
Then explain to me what the basis is for saying that the US is culpable?

Here's some folks at Democratic Underground speculating that bombs in Iraq may have set off the earthquake:

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=102x1116859

Here's Counterpunch speculating that previous US underwater nuclear testing may have been responsible, even though the last time the US tested a nuke was 12 years ago:

http://www.rense.com/general61/earth...sunamisand.htm
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Old 01-05-2005, 05:52 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jamila
I really think an article needed to be provided to give us some substance on which to have an intelligent discussion on this matter.
this seems like a valid, level headed analysis.

Quote:
[CP] Could an underwater nuclear test have caused this tsunami?
CounterPunch
www.counterpunch.org
30 December 2004

Earthquakes, Tsunamis and Nuclear Testing Unnatural Disaster?

By LILA RAJIVA

...

Q: What are some other disturbances that can cause tsunamis?

A: Landslides or explosions such as underwater nuclear testing.

Q: Is underwater nuclear testing common?

A: Yes, The United States has conducted 1,054 tests of nuclear devices between July 16, 1945 and September 23, 1992. Before 1962, all the tests were atmospheric (on land or in the Pacific or Atlantic oceans) but overall the majority - 839 - were underground tests. From 1966 to 1990, 167 French nuclear test explosions have been performed on two atolls in French Polynesia, Morurua and Fangataua. Of the 167 tests, 44 were atmospheric. Atmospheric explosions were carried out until 1974, but only underground tests after that. The underground tests have been conducted at the bottom of shafts bored 500-1200 meters into the basalt core of the atoll. Initially these shafts were drilled in the outer rim of the atoll. In 1981, most likely due to the weakening of that rim, the tests with higher yields were shifted to shafts drilled under the lagoon itself.

Q: What are the effects of underwater nuclear testing?

A: To quote from a 1995 case brought against the French government, Case T-219/95 R, by Marie-Thérèse Danielsson, Pierre Largenteau and Edwin Haoa, all residing in Tahiti, French Polynesia: "Short-term effects include geological damage and the venting of gaseous and volatile fission products into the biosphere. Nuclear tests, the applicants say, can cause landslides and did indeed cause a major underwater landslide at Mururoa in 1979, when a nuclear device was exploded after jamming half-way down its shaft. Since the geology of Mururoa is already unstable due to large-scale fracturing caused by previous tests, further major landslides are likely. Such landslides in the past have given rise to tsunamis causing coastal damage in areas as far away as Pitcairn and Tahiti and endangering residences such as that of Ms. Danielsson. They can also release radioactive material into the sea, with catastrophic effects on the food chain in an area such as French Polynesia where fish is an important part of the diet.

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Old 01-05-2005, 05:53 AM   #27
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this is just a tad off topic but you know what pisses me off?? The fact that the US can go around parading the fact that it has nukes but let anybody else do it and all hell breaks loose. We should just change the name of our counrty to the Holy American Empire
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Old 01-05-2005, 06:11 AM   #28
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This is too complicated to specifically assign any blame for the tsunami on the U.S. or anyone else.
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Old 01-05-2005, 06:12 AM   #29
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The best you can get out of the Counterpunch article is that nuclear tests from 12+ years ago might possibly have loosened some fault lines that may have made a smaller earthquake happen sooner rather than later, and the smaller earthquake triggered the massive earthquake that caused the tsunami. That's about it.
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Old 01-05-2005, 10:05 AM   #30
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there is scientific proof that underground nuclear testing can cause landslides, tsunamis, etc. etc. in the surrounding areas of the test.

there is no scientific proof that underground nuclear testing can cause landslides, earthquakes, tsumanis on a grand scale 12+ years after the fact.

is it possiable? as speedracer put it... yea... i guess there is a chance. but there is not a shred of evidence to prove it, so let's all calm down with blaming anyone... the US, india, pakistan, france, russia... anyone.

the only evidence out there is that an earthquake caused the tsunami. unless evidence to the contrary can be found, anything else is simply wild speculation.
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