northern alliance?

[kobayashi]

it seems the u.s. government has thrown quite a bit of support behind this northern alliance - but who are they?
what are their ideals and how are they going to make things better in afghanistan?

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always wear your safety belt

 

[Vorsprung]

Well, they're enemies of the Taliban and the only one who are willing to lose lifes in a war against the Taliban.
Also it's an "alliance" with not really more than one thing in common: "We hate the taliban" (Like the western coalition). So, it's not really a stabile force, especially not since their main man general "i-forgot-his-name" was killed last month.
So, the only reason theiy're getting support now is because is because they're against the taliban.
Just as the mujaheddin (including taliban) got support in the 80's because they were against the communists or Pinochet got support in Chile because he was against Allende's socialist party.......

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Vorsprung durch Technik

 

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by Vorsprung:

So, the only reason theiy're getting support now is because is because they're against the taliban.
Just as the mujaheddin (including taliban) got support in the 80's because they were against the communists or Pinochet got support in Chile because he was against Allende's socialist party.......

but that's just the point-just as hussein and bin Laden got support because they were against communists. let's hope there isn't a northern alliance of afghanistan terrorist action in 10 years or so-if we make it that far.

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always wear your safety belt

 

[Patti Jones]

"The Northern Alliance, though surely welcome allies, are hardly dedicated defenders of democracy and their cruelty in the temporary takeover of Kabul is too well remembered." "Changing faces of terrorism" By Sayeed Hasan Khan and Kurt Jacobsen

I dont know...we wont know until this "war" (sorry, but now it looks like a bad joke, no as a war, for me) is over 'cos for some reason every notice about that Northern Alliance is banned now...who knows...but if Im sure of something is that US seems to never learn (and with this I include ppl too) cos the biggest terrorist agrupations have a Pro-US past...(check Hammas or the US relations with Saddam Hussain before the 90's, specially during 1987-1988)...who knows...
Take care...think, dont agree.
Salam!



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Patti
-Pride Girl-

 

[U2Bama]

Patti:

Weren't you suggesting a few weeks ago that the U.S. should be helping the Northern Alliance more than we (U.S.) were?

~U2Alabama

 

[speedracer]

Originally posted by kobayashi:
but that's just the point-just as hussein and bin Laden got support because they were against communists. let's hope there isn't a northern alliance of afghanistan terrorist action in 10 years or so-if we make it that far.

I'm sure the US is aware of this--they appear to have given some thought to making sure that a slightly friendlier regime replaces the Taliban in Afghanistan.

 

[Rono]

Do they produce drugs ?

 

[Mirrorball Man]

Originally posted by Vorsprung:
Well, they're enemies of the Taliban and the only one who are willing to lose lifes in a war against the Taliban.
Also it's an "alliance" with not really more than one thing in common: "We hate the taliban" (Like the western coalition). So, it's not really a stabile force, especially not since their main man general "i-forgot-his-name" was killed last month.
So, the only reason theiy're getting support now is because is because they're against the taliban.
Just as the mujaheddin (including taliban) got support in the 80's because they were against the communists or Pinochet got support in Chile because he was against Allende's socialist party.......

That's what I think as well Vorsprung. The US government are supporting them because it's to their own advantage. This is one of the ways the US government has built up enemies in the Moslem countries - they'll support someone if it's to their own advantage. Tony Blair is supporting them as well. I hope he knows what he's doing but I doubt it. He recently returned from a tour of some Moslem countries and said there is a great amount of misunderstanding between the Middle East and the West. Well duuuuhh, you don't have to fly thousands of miles to know that. But I think the coalition could have blown a more peaceful way to end it by failing to support Abdul Haq.

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Rain from Heaven.

[This message has been edited by Mirrorball Man (edited 11-11-2001).]

 

[Mirrorball Man]

This link shows how complicated it could get.
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20011110/pl/bush_musharraf_7.html

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Rain from Heaven.

Words are just dust in deserts of sound, in the Giving Ground.

[This message has been edited by Mirrorball Man (edited 11-11-2001).]

 

[Patti Jones]

Patti:

Weren't you suggesting a few weeks ago that the U.S. should be helping the Northern Alliance more than we (U.S.) were?

~U2Alabama

Yep, but I didnt know about the time Kabul was on their power then...and the atrocities they have done then, either...now I know...

Answer this:
Now the you know, what do you think Bama?
Are the US doing it ok by helping an alliance that can become the future taliban?
The main target is to get Bin Laden, but if in the future the Northern Alliance kills another 7000 US ppl: Are you going to put another monster in the power again that 10 years after kill another 7000 civilians? See why I think you never learn. Please answer.
Love,


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Patti
-Pride Girl-

 

[speedracer]

Originally posted by Patti Jones:
Yep, but I didnt know about the time Kabul was on their power then...and the atrocities they have done then, either...now I know...

Answer this:
Now the you know, what do you think Bama?
Are the US doing it ok by helping an alliance that can become the future taliban?
The main target is to get Bin Laden, but if in the future the Northern Alliance kills another 7000 US ppl: Are you going to put another monster in the power again that 10 years after kill another 7000 civilians? See why I think you never learn. Please answer.
Love,

Slightly cynical answer follows:

Well, even if it takes 10 years for the Northern Alliance to become Taliban: The Next Generation, that's still 10 years we don't have to worry about wackos flying planes into skyscrapers, right?

A more thoughtful answer might follow, but right now The Simpsons are on.

 

[speedracer]

More thoughtful response:

Germany and Japan were successfully rebuilt after World War II, so it wouldn't be impossible for Afghanistan to be rebuilt with a more stable government (not necessarily a Western-type democracy) after the Taliban is eliminated. It'd be difficult, since conflict has been the order of the day in Afghanistan for decades, but not impossible.

Also, the Simpsons stunk today. Way too bizarre.

 

[DoctorGonzo]

Well, even if it takes 10 years for the Northern Alliance to become Taliban: The Next Generation, that's still 10 years we don't have to worry about wackos flying planes into skyscrapers, right?

That's the kind of reasoning that got us into this mess. Extreme shortsightedness let Afganastan become what it is today.

The funny thing is, our "allies" (the people who are doing our dirty work) treated the people of Kabul so badly, they welcomed the Taliban when they came into town.

 

[speedracer]

Originally posted by DoctorGonzo:
That's the kind of reasoning that got us into this mess. Extreme shortsightedness let Afganastan become what it is today.

Specious reasoning, huh? DoctorGonzo, I'd like to buy your rock...

But the Northern Alliance couldn't possibly be worse than the Taliban, could they? Well, maybe they could.

And to complete your line of reasoning (similar to what Patti, kobayashi and vorsprung have said) you'd have to compare Afghanistan today with what you think it would have been had we not intervened when the Soviets invaded. Would the Soviet Union still be alive today, and would they still be parking nuclear missiles in Cuba? Would Afghanistan still have won, and would Osama bin Laden or some other guy still have been able to attack us? Or would both the Soviets and Afghanistan have left us alone?

The funny thing is, our "allies" (the people who are doing our dirty work) treated the people of Kabul so badly, they welcomed the Taliban when they came into town.

Well, Abdullah Abdullah, a foreign minister for the Northern Alliance, says that "we do not want to see any conflict in Kabul. Kabul should serve as a venue for talks, for negotiations, for peace, the conception of Afghanistan, building institutions. That part is understandable to us." (source: http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/11/11/ret.afghan.alliance.index.html)

We'll see what happens. The US would (or should) probably send in troops to Kabul once it falls, or before then.

[This message has been edited by speedracer (edited 11-11-2001).]

 

[U2Bama]

Originally posted by Patti Jones:
Yep, but I didnt know about the time Kabul was on their power then...and the atrocities they have done then, either...now I know...

Answer this:
Now the you know, what do you think Bama?
Are the US doing it ok by helping an alliance that can become the future taliban?
The main target is to get Bin Laden, but if in the future the Northern Alliance kills another 7000 US ppl: Are you going to put another monster in the power again that 10 years after kill another 7000 civilians? See why I think you never learn. Please answer.
Love,

Very well, Patti. I have not been one to throw my support behind the Northern Alliance for anything other than their internal military experience vs. the Taliban. This weekend, President Bush announced that he does not want the Taliban to take Kabul, but instead hopes for a coalition government that is more cross-representative of Afghanistan, including Pashtun elements (majority of Afghans) along with Tajiks & Uzbeks (which make up the Northern Alliance).

As President Bush said, "We share a common view that in order for there to be a country that is stable and peaceful on this good leader's western border, that any power arrangement must be shared with the different tribes within Afghanistan; a key signal of tha

 

[Patti Jones]

Originally posted by U2Bama:

Then please tell me where they are since you are so certain of this.

So, here it is a hard thing for a UStatian to do: Walk in others shoes. Try harder, please. And think: If you were Ossama, would you keep that beautiful face going round the place where they are looking for you? If i were him, I wouldnt even keep my face. He has all the power to do whatever he wants as change his name, and his face, nationality and tons of things more.So, logically that takes us to think that he will stay in Afganistan for you to find him? He wasnt even there when the bombing started.

I feel certain we will make progress in protecting the freedom of the Afghan people, something which they have not had for a few years.

Ask the casualties and displaced ppl...I dont know, im safely at home in the world's ass...but remember that, in some way, you are to blame for those years of unsafety...

But as far as our "words" and "acts," I didn't think you wanted us involved in other countries?

I dont want you to. I want your pres. Bush to be less arrogant in his words...wasnt that clear? Sometimes what bothers are your words, not your acts. And i say it in general, not to the US only.

I am not able to donate blood.

Neither can I..that sucks...

Who else, c'mon! what are you waiting for to give a hand?

Peace!
Patti


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Patti
-Pride Girl-

 

[U2Bama]

Originally posted by Patti Jones:
So you may have read that part in which some ppl state to have proofs of the US help to Hammas just to spread the Palestinian (Apparently, it all turned wrong, again...) ...I haven?t seen any, but i also haven?t seen any proof of Ben Laden?s participation on the Sep 11 attacks...so...

I haven't seen the proof yet either, but whenever there is a criminal prosecution of a suspect, I don't go down to the District Attorney's office and demand to see it; I let the proper authorities see it. Nonetheless, The Osama and Al Qaeda have exhibited a pattern and practice in their admitted invlovment in previous attacks on the U.S. and our allies.

No, most of them are committed by every country in this world every day. There is no perfect country. But your mistake is always the same one. Interference in governments without their agreement or in order to get any economical advantage. (read mainly petrol or something like the witches hunting you did with the communism)

Here again, you act as though everytime we extend our involvement inany conflict, it is on a strictly uninvited basis. I don't find this to be true.

Oh c?mon! So, you pic a government to take their own decitions without consulting? That?s not freedom. You should be able to tell your government that you dont want them to do this or that. Gather round ppl that thinks alike you and DO THINGS, ask for sings in the streets, send letters, do demonstrations. We stopped a war against Chile in that way years ago. It is not possible that the land of freedom and choices cannot show it goverment they dont want something.

I DO think a government should act on behalf of the wishes and views of its population. But just because 5% of the population is opposed to something doesn't mean the government should STOP doing it. The overwhelming majority of Americans are supporting our current actions. And those that are opposed have the right to go sing in the streets, write letters, make demonstrations, whatever.

Well, If I say that I think that I should be able to take a book of whatever religion I want in any part of the world, and I think you may disagree, is just ?cos I dont have a good opinion about you.

Could you explain this a little further?

I was meaning that it is a young religion. It is easy for young things to commit mistakes. If they are in the government or not is another trouble. But since they are, and they are young they commit mistakes. You misunderstood me. Other religions are in the Gov. of other cities and countries and they are not even a little new. Yes we have the catholic church as official...and it is a BAD thing, believe me. Cos the only thing that rules is that our president can?t have any other religion. That sucks, but I take every chance I have to do something against it. ANY kind of protest.

Theocracy sucks. There is no place for it in this day and age, regardless of the age of any religion. At the same time, religious suppression, as is the case in China and North Korea, is equally disturbing.

Wasn't Argentina's former President, Menem, born into a Muslim family, but converted to Catholicism? Did he do this on his own as a matter of faith, or did he do it to secure the Presidency? Just think, in Afghanistan, the penalty for him converting from Islam ("apostacy") would have been death.

It is a pain, but it always happens and there is nothing you can do about it. Let me give you some examples. We dont have a religion in civil law, but the most of our citizens are Catholics. So, what do we have here? Christmas is a national holiday, just because the 80% of the country is closed. And that is just a stupid thing. Last weekend was the national census. First weekend of Ramadam, the two mosques we have here had to be closed Saturday and Sunday. Sun arises at 4:30 and goes down at 8:30 and you are not allowed to work fewer amounts of hours. For Jewish if you dont work new year day or the forgiveness day you are not paid for that day and any other extra payment like perfect assistance, and you can get to be fired for being absent. See? Im almost sure that in the US things like this happens too, maybe with other not that big religions, but Im sure it happens too. You cant avoid it.

If "it is a pain" and "there is nothing (I) can do about it," then what is the point in being concerned about human rights? I won't abandon my views or my campaign against religious oppression.

Sure, in the U.S., most businesses shut down for Thanksgiving (an ecunemical holiday), Christmas, and Independence Day. But if you WANT to stay open, you can. Many drug stores and restaurants and most gas stations are open on such days. Should the law state that EVERY business must be open on those days?

So I am, let?s pray for everything to be ok! Thanx and peace for you Bama!

Thanks, and Shalom!

~U2Alabama

 

[U2Bama]

Originally posted by Patti Jones:
So, here it is a hard thing for a UStatian to do: Walk in others shoes. Try harder, please. And think: If you were Ossama, would you keep that beautiful face going round the place where they are looking for you? If i were him, I wouldnt even keep my face. He has all the power to do whatever he wants as change his name, and his face, nationality and tons of things more.So, logically that takes us to think that he will stay in Afganistan for you to find him? He wasnt even there when the bombing started.

Please quit generalizing about Americans. It really sounds quite racist. And I am no judge of men's appearance, but he does not have a "beautiful face." Again, if you know so much, where is he? And how do you know he wasn't there when the bombing began?

Ask the casualties and displaced ppl...I dont know, im safely at home in the world's ass...but remember that, in some way, you are to blame for those years of unsafety...

Me personally to blame? That is an "extremist" way of putting it

Who else, c'mon! what are you waiting for to give a hand?

How do you know others aren't giving a hand? Many people choose to keep this a personal act and do not discuss it or advertise it.

~U2Alabama

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

broken thread. sorry folks.