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Old 04-15-2005, 02:40 PM   #1
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North Korea and Kim Jong Il

There are a number of reasons to eyeball North Korea, and also a number of reasons why attacking it could lead to a catastrophe. Kim Jong Il is more than willing to starve his own people in order to push for military power. Their human rights record is piss poor. They possess a brutal record of torture and killings of innocent citizens. Kim Jong Il's worst nightmare is that his citizens grab an understanding of the outside world, causing them to lose loyalty to North Korea and think of it as the world's greatest country.

This thread will discuss further the realities of this strict communist nation, which has been struck with extreme poverty at the government's expense.

http://nkfreedom.org/
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index...pen&of=ENG-2S2
http://monthly.chosun.com/html/20000...6130003_5.html
http://www.kimsoft.com/korea/nkdefec3.htm
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Old 04-15-2005, 03:08 PM   #2
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NORTH KOREA FACT SHEET


A starving child in a North Korean nursery school

More than 200,000 prisoners are being held in just 5 of the 12 prison camps of North Korea, a nation of less than 20 million people. (the number of additional prisoners who are imprisoned in the other known and unknown camps, some of which are said to be completely underground, is unknown)[1]

North Korea's State Security Agency maintains at least 12 political prisons and about 30 forced labor and labor education camps.1
At least two of the camps are larger in area than the District of Columbia
Camp Huaong is 3 times the size of Washington, DC.1
At one camp, Camp 22 in Haengyong, 50,000 prisoners toil each day in conditions that U.S. officials and former inmates say result in the death of 20 to 25 percent of the prison population every year.1
In the last three decades more than 400,000 people are believed to have perished in the gulag.[2]

The many violations of human rights that occur include:[3]
Systematic use of torture
Arbitrary and brutal imprisonment
Extreme deprivation and starvation (one daily ration is 100g of broken corn)
Intense forced labor
Frequent 'accidents', disfigurement and death due to oppressive conditions
The nation is characterized by injustice, such as:3
No due process
Arbitrary public execution
Punishment of up to 3 generations for the accusations against 1 family member
Caste/Class system based on hereditary family background limits opportunities and/or internally exiles at least 2/3 of North Korea's people
Imprisonment or execution of anyone who attepts to defect to South Korea or who has had contact with South Korean Christian or political groups
Pregnant Women forcibly repatriated to North Korea from China who are found to have been impregnated by Chinese men are subject to forced abortion or forced into labor by kicking them and then (if it survives) made to smother their newborn child. (According to some reports, the bodies of these newly born children are then collected and used for some kind of 'medicine'.)

President Kim Jong II uses starvation as a means of ethnic cleansing and religious persecution: [4]

In most rural areas there is no medicine, running water, heating, food, or bandages where as the capital city, Pyongyang, glitters with nightclubs, casinos, luxury hotels, gourmet restaurants and state-of-the-art hospitals.
Humanitarian Relief Experts say that more than 4 million North Koreans have died of starvation since 1995 despite the fact that North Korea receives more food aid than any nation in the world.4
Lee Young Kuk, former bodyguard to President Kim says that millions of dollars of food is stockpiled in military complexes and used to feed soldiers and the ruling elite.4
North Korea illicitly exports narcotics to Russia, China, South Korea and Japan
The North Korea manufactures 1/3 of all Methamphetamines sold in Japan

Between 4,200 and 7,000 hectares of land are dedicated to cultivating the opium poppy, which is used to make the illegal addictive drug heroin.[5]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[1] MSNBC. 'Death, terror in N. Korea gulag.' January 15, 2003. http://www.msnbc.com/news/859191.asp...A01&cp1=1#BODY
[2] U.S. News and World Report. 'Gulag Nation.' June 23, 2003.
[3] Compiled from the Congressional Testimony of Soon Ok Lee before the House Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific. April 22, 2002. http://wwwa.house.gov/international_...07/lee0502.htm
[4] WORLD magazine. 'View from the Axis.' March 9, 2002. http://worldmag.com/world/issue/03-09-02/cover_1.asp
[5] TIME asia, 'Kim's Rackets.' June 9, 2003. http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazi...455850,00.html
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Old 04-16-2005, 09:27 AM   #3
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without getting all crazy or arguing...its funny how i never really hear anyone complain about this guy but to many people, bush is hitler.
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Old 04-16-2005, 01:39 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by NYRangers78
without getting all crazy or arguing...its funny how i never really hear anyone complain about this guy but to many people, bush is hitler.
Don't you realize Bush is so much worse? I mean, he only exterminated millions of people and devotes his life to genocide and ethnic cleansing...

I agree with your statement by the way.
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Old 04-18-2005, 05:36 PM   #5
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Me too.

This guy is a sick bastard. He's murdering his own people. We hear plenty on the news about NKorea's nukes, but little about the plight of her people. I wonder why that is?

(really, I do...wouldn't our gov't/media *want* us all to hate them since they are on our little "axis of evil"?)

And knowing that all the aid in the world isn't doing much when there's a sadisitic bastard in power makes you feel kinda helpless.
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Old 04-18-2005, 06:06 PM   #6
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I agree, VertigoGal. One has to wonder - is it the nukes that make them evil, or is he a complete kook?

Some believe he is no threat to the United States, but runs a nuclear program in case N. Korea is attacked. I really don't trust the guy, but this point in time is not a good time to consider overthrowing him. In contrast, I wonder how powerful his military will become 10-15 years from now.
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Old 04-18-2005, 06:49 PM   #7
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Yeah...I was reading some opinions at this site

NKzone.org

and several people seemed to think that they'll start to move towards a China situation...obviously the Chinese masses aren't millionares, and 1989 ain't that long ago, but that would at least be a move in the right direction. Honestly, I don't know nearly enough about their structure and true situation behind all the fancy parades to even speculate on whether that's a possibility. I hope so.

But someone on the site also made the point that we were saying the same thing about Castro 50 years ago, and aside from a broken leg, he seems fine....
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Old 04-18-2005, 06:55 PM   #8
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oops, reposted instead of editing...
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Old 04-19-2005, 06:35 AM   #9
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He is a threat, and the sooner something is done about him the better.

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Old 04-19-2005, 06:57 AM   #10
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north korea has nukes and that puts us in america and around the world in a very hard position to be in. this is another reason why bush preempted iraq and saddam hussein so that it didnt get to the point that it has gotten to with north korea.
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Old 04-19-2005, 11:02 AM   #11
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North Koreans are also EXTREMELY loyal to their country. We would never be able to accomplish what we did in Iraq without the help of the rest of the world. When Kim Il Sung died (who was equally as ruthless), people literally died from excessive mourning.
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Old 04-19-2005, 12:38 PM   #12
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Oh goodness! People want to go after a nuclear armed, heavily nationalist enemy in China's sphere of influence. This is even more insane than invading Iraq, killing 100,000 civlians and proclaiming it a success after puppet elections and with terrorism and coalition army violence as the norm.

Is this sane?

They won't do it for 2 reasons.

1)China
2)NO OIL IN NORTH KOREA (or is there?). With the same intelligence people working on WMD in Iraq, maybe Sat photos have found tanker trucks running about the country that contain oil supplies for the chinese.


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Old 04-19-2005, 12:51 PM   #13
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It's a bad time to go after them, but it has nothing to do with oil.
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Old 04-19-2005, 02:22 PM   #14
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fuckin' north korea. kim jong il - one crazy son of a bitch. he should be crucified.
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Old 04-19-2005, 02:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
it has nothing to do with oil.
I know, and that's one of two reasons why North Korea won't be attacked like Iraq, even though the human rights abuses there are probably worse than in Iraq. So much for our dedication to freedom fighting as we have - 2 years later - proclaimed the goal in Iraq .

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