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Old 02-07-2002, 02:16 PM   #31
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The U.S. still isn't torturing anybody.
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Old 02-07-2002, 02:38 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
The U.S. still isn't torturing anybody.
Actually, we are; apparently, the Caribbean breeze at Guantanamo Bay is too "balmy" for the detainees. Also, our CIA operative, the late Mike Spann (an Auburn grad like yourself) allegedly asked Little Johnny Walker too many questions, thus committing an act of "torture."

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Old 02-07-2002, 04:03 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peaseblossom:
This isn't East Germany circa early 1900's. You can leave if you'd like.

this is a joke, right? a joke! either that or a case of dazlling stupidity...

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Old 02-07-2002, 07:03 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peaseblossom:
Wow, Bubba, I'm right with you on this one. All the way. It's great to hear someone else that believes this strongly in our country.
Thanks - glad to find another friend in the arena of ideas.

And, Marko, I don't *think* it's a joke, because one CAN leave quite easily.
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Old 02-07-2002, 08:32 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
conspiratorialist
I served on the Warren Commission.

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Old 02-07-2002, 08:44 PM   #36
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I truly don't understand how people who live in this country, and have been given all the gifts that go with it, can bash the U.S. like they do. If it's so bad, why do they live here?
Let me put it to you this way. Whether or not you were fortunate enough to have lived this way, imagine that you are the child of at least one or possibly two decent, hardworking, loving parents. You might have complained about them and you might still complain about them. You know they've messed up, and you think maybe they even messed you up a bit. But you know that they could have been worse, and you still love them, even though you might even criticize them to their very faces.

That's sort of how I see the United States. Not perfect, not always right. Sometimes does too much, sometimes does too little. But it's still the country I was born in and the country I live in, for better or for worse. And I live here mostly because I think my personality is pretty deeply entrenched in American culture, and I would miss it if I left.

If you can love and appreciate your parents without believing that they're perfect, why can't you feel the same way about your country?

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Old 02-08-2002, 03:19 AM   #37
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There has also been released this audio clip of one of the detainees issuing a formal complaint about the deplorable conditions in Cuba.

For those without a proper media player, a transcript:

Excuse me, Senor? May I speak to you please?

I asked for a mai tai and they brought me a pina colada, and I said no salt, NO SALT for the margarita, but it had salt on it. It had big grains of salt on it.

(Untelligible response)

Lo siento, but if it happens again, I won't be leaving a tip. Because I could, I could shut this whole resort down.

Sir?

I could take my traveler's checks to a competing resort. I could write a letter to your board of tourism and I could have this place condemned. I could put, I could put strychnine in the guacamole! There was salt on the glass, BIG grains of salt!


Hopefully, this tape will be played on all the major networks this evening.
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Old 02-08-2002, 03:40 AM   #38
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Wow, Bubba, I'm right with you on this one. All the way. It's great to hear someone else that believes this strongly in our country.

I truly don't understand how people who live in this country, and have been given all the gifts that go with it, can bash the U.S. like they do. If it's so bad, why do they live here? This isn't East Germany circa early 1900's. You can leave if you'd like.

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Old 02-08-2002, 05:12 AM   #39
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"Are you for real? Do you know anything about USSR people in those 50-60 yrs (1930-1990)? They were opressed and tortured, they had tens of thousands of political prisoners - they were never patriotic as USA.
I'm not saying that being patriotic is bad, I just want to prove your statement is way off."

Yes, I know a lot about the USSR people in these 50-60 years, because some of them included my parents and grandparents, and in fact myself (well, for the first 15 years of my life). Yes, there was oppression and tortures (especially during the Stalinist times), yet hundreds of millions of people sincerely believed that they lived in the best country in the world and that all those cruelties done by their Communist government were necessary for the good of their beloved Motherland. They were immensely proud to be living in USSR and even those people who hated the regime would give their lives to defend their country (like millions of Soviets did during World War II). That's why there're still millions of people from the older generations who wish for the old times to return. For many Russians, it was and still is inconceivable to live anywhere else but Russia.
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Old 02-08-2002, 05:17 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by brettig:
Its Norman Mailer...
Still is

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Old 02-08-2002, 01:29 PM   #41
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There is nothing wrong with showing pride in country and patriotism...among ourselves. Do we really need to bombard the rest of the world with it all the time? They know who we are and what we stand for ...why drive it into the ground ? I can't imagine how it would be if say every time we turned on the tv or watched a movie we had to endure another sermon on the greatness of Aby Daby (or whatever) I would soon get tired of it...as I'm sure they would get tired of us praising ourselves all the time. We can still be proud of ourselves without making them feel like a bunch of wet socks because they are not one of us or making them angry because they know they enjoy the same things we do in their 'free' country.

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Old 02-08-2002, 05:22 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
I'm not saying we're perfect, that we're the good guys all the time.
no, but you are saying you're never wrong

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Old 02-09-2002, 02:56 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome:
no, but you are saying you're never wrong
Am I saying the U.S. is never wrong? Of course not: militarily, Vietnam was handled very poorly; economically, we should have never gotten off the gold standard; and even if Roe v. Wade was the right decision, it was for the wrong reasons.

(And I'm not introducing these observations to start further fights, just to point out that I don't think the U.S. is always right.)

And am I saying that I am personally never wrong? Again, no; if I misspeak or have my facts or statistics wrong, I will own up to it.

But at the same time, I do think that A) many of these issures are important enough that it's crucial to know the right thing to believe or do and B) I more-or-less know what that right thing is.

I know I'm going to piss off a LOT of people by saying that, but I also know that a lot of people think that THEY are right. If they didn't, they would argue so confidently.

And I also know that I'm among a very SMALL number of people who are criticized for thinking they are right.

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 02-09-2002).]
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Old 02-10-2002, 03:42 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:


And I also know that I'm among a very SMALL number of people who are criticized for thinking they are right.

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 02-09-2002).]
Sadly Bubba.. You fall into the wrong political sect to apparently be Above and Immune to any sort of Criticism on doing the right thing... at least on this webboard.

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