Non-issue? Bush waiting 7 minutes on 9/11

[Diemen]

I'm a fan of Real Time with Bill Maher, and in the last couple weeks he's really been harping on the clip from F/911 showing Bush sitting in the Miami classroom for 7 minutes after receiving the news that the nation was under attack.

Here's my thing - is this really that big of an issue? The way Maher and others seem to phrase it, only action by the President would start the ball rolling in terms of securing and protecting the nation, and by sitting there nothing was getting done to protect the country - as if he held the secret code to get things moving. You can be damn sure that the secret service, FBI and CIA were probably already in high gear before the president even got word.

So Bush sat there. In my eyes, yes I would have preferred it if he politely excused himself and immediately got up to attend to the matter at hand, but I also understand that at that point it doesn't take the President to make things happen, and I can understand that he might want to maintain an appearance of calm (though admittedly he could easily have calmly excused himself from the room).

Anyway, yes, I would've preferred if he had gotten up sooner, but it's not a big issue with me, and I can perfectly understand being a little stunned with the news. Now I might prefer a president who didn't remain stunned for 7 minutes, but this is a good example of "making a mountain out of a mole hill," which unfortunately seems to be a favorite tool of both sides in this election.

Anyway, thoughts?

 

[Angela Harlem]

I dont know really who this Bill Maher character is, but I would like to know how HE responded when he heard the news. Add the shock everyone felt, then the added bonus of being president of the country, and I'm not surprised W took a few minutes to get into action.

Truly. Is this currently a hot topic in America?

 

[Diemen]

In some circles, Angela. It was talked about quite a bit right when F/911 came out, as one of the most "damning" clips of Bush.

Real Time with Bill Maher is a political talk show, essentially. Bill Maher originally had Politically Incorrect on ABC (I think), but they were pretty strict on what they'd let him say and I think basically cancelled his show over a few controversial subjects/statements (I don't know the particulars). He's now moved to HBO, and the show has improved dramatically. There's a definite liberal slant, but it still has fairly open debate between conservatives and liberals alike.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Its a pointless topic, frankly Bush would be damned if he does and damned if he doesnt. On one hand he sits there and considers for 7 minutes his options in peace before all hell breaks loose (as it would for a POTUS after the US has been attacked directly) and they paint him as a buffoon. On the other hand he could have stood up and rushed out of the room, he would be labelled a coward. Then he could have just got up and said he had to deal with a threat and he would have been trigger happy, a president who took the country off to war after a single decision in the heat of the moment. I think its better to have a President who can use those minutes as his evacuation is prepared to reflect in peace on what has happened so that he may approach the problem in a clearer manner as more information comes to hand, because as soon as he left that school and got aboard Air Force 1 his situation and the decisions that he made would have real ramifications.

 

[Harper]

Every now and then that clip of his aide leaning over and whispering in his ear gets played and each time I believe I'm looking at a man who has just simply frozen. If he hadn't been in a public place with all those tv cameras on him he would have been able to have a whole discussion, ask questions. But he was in public. This was a man who had spent a considerable amount of time since his election on his ranch and being criticised roughly for it (at least in the UK press). He'd been pretty much isolationist in his foreign policy. He had never, ever expected to be in that situation and he just didn't know what to do. His mind had gone blank, he couldn't even excuse himself and leave the room. I'm surprised his aide didn't have to lean over again and tell him to go!

He spent the next few days running all over the country in panic. He really needed all the advice he could get, as he sure as hell didn't know what to do. I believe that his lack of understanding of foreign affairs is the reason why he was so easily talked into bombing Afghanistan and then destroying Iraq. He "knew" about Iraq from his dad. It wouldn't have taken much to convince him that the way to end world terrorism was to remove Saddam Hussein!

 

[Salome]

a mountain out of a mole hill indeed

it does sort of conflict with his preferred image of the decisive leader
but in the end I can't blame him

 

[pax]

Mountain out of a mole hill.

He may have figured that if he got up and rushed out, the kids would be upset or confused, and also that there was not a whole lot he could have done at that particular moment. I have no problem with him finishing the story he was reading and then taking the opportunity to slip out. What on Earth do we expect him to have done in those seven minutes?

 

[kobayashi]

thats funny because moore doesnt harp on the clip much either, for moore that is at least. relative to his other points, this is one he glides over.

there is, of course, also a clip of bush in a sort of town hall meeting where he makes the claim that he watched each of the planes fly into the towers. i half expected to see moore use that.

 

[LoveTown]

I think maybe 7 mins was a little too long to wait. However, he is responsible for this country and he had just been told we were under attack. I am certain while he was sitting there his wheels were turning as to what to do. I think it's human nature to sit back for a moment after getting shocking news and just go "ok, what now?"

 

[Dreadsox]

Angela, I nearly got tarred and feathered at my birthday party here a few weeks ago for saying it was no big deal. The liberal wankers that make up almost 100% of my friendships here were frothing at the mouths at my take on it.

I really wonder what people think he could have done about it? Truthfully. Having worked with the secret service I am almost willing to bet that they did not have a command and control room set up at the Elementary school. I know they arrived at the hotel I worked at almost a week early to set up for VP Gore when he came to visit.

My recollection was that the aid came in, and if I am not mistaken, they were setting up a press conference room for the president to address the nation. Maybe the aid said finish what you are doing, don't panic the kids, we are setting up for a press conference.

I do believe even Mrs. Kerry...I mean Mrs. Heinz said she felt he acted appropriately.

 

[BVS]

How many people have waited 7 minutes to ask questions or find out what happened when word came that a friend or a loved one had been in an accident, attacked, or fell ill?

You excuse yourself and you get briefed with all your top aids to find out what the hell is going on and what we need to do to stop further attacks that are in place. I think that is the most damning piece is that there were other attacks taking place while he sat there for seven minutes.

It also ruins his, I'm a decisive cowboy type of a leader bullshit he's come up with for himself. I think anyone who really believes he's thinking of what to do, or coming up with ideas is fooling themselves. How many hundreds of other planes were in the sky at that time that could have been weapons? Bush wouldn't know the magnitude until briefed.

I think it was a cowardly mistake.

 

[A_Wanderer]

If you took the time to review the 9/11 commission report then you would know that there was a huge failure of communication from the first plane striking until the end of the attack, the Air Force wasn't able to scamble the planes, relaying of orders and information through the various chains of command had trouble. Blaming Bush for not standing up and taking instant action when nobody knew all the facts is a very short sighted and dare I say it ignorant view of the many problems that occured on that most awful day. Do you honestly think that if President Bush had left the room instantly and left the later attacks would have been averted? Would you rather he hurried up in taking action by ordering the bombing of every hostile government quickly? What do you think could have been done in those 7 minutes knowing that the fuelling and takeoff preparations for AF1 take time and that nobody knew the full scale of what was going on?

It is very, very easy to condemn a leader for taking seven minutes while their security detail organized a proper evacuation to sit and consider what is happening, John Kerry himself admits to sitting shocked for 40 minutes upon hearing about the attacks, President Bush wields a massive ammount of power, not jumping straight into the fray and instead using that time to consider the situation was probably a much better thing to do than stand up, leave and sit like a stunned mullet during the following hours. If this must be made into an issue then I think that President Bush made no mistake at all and it most certainly does not reflect badly on his character, attempting to paint a picture of his mind based on those 7 minutes is quite a subjective piece. I would say that it shows a man who considers his options, who thinks about what is going on and it totally discredits the picture of an imbecile cowboy wannabe who will blow up any country with oil that is hurled out by many.

 

[BVS]

If you took the time to review the 9/11 commission report then you would know that there was a huge failure of communication from the first plane striking until the end of the attack, the Air Force wasn't able to scamble the planes, relaying of orders and information through the various chains of command had trouble. Blaming Bush for not standing up and taking instant action when nobody knew all the facts is a very short sighted and dare I say it ignorant view of the many problems that occured on that most awful day. Do you honestly think that if President Bush had left the room instantly and left the later attacks would have been averted? Would you rather he hurried up in taking action by ordering the bombing of every hostile government quickly? What do you think could have been done in those 7 minutes knowing that the fuelling and takeoff preparations for AF1 take time and that nobody knew the full scale of what was going on?

I think you are confusing the issue. I nor is anyone else saying he could have ordered action in the first seven minutes. So excusing yourself right away is not hurrying yourself into anything. I'm saying that our country is under attack and the only thing he knows is that planes have hit buildings. Everyone watching TV or listening to the radio knew as much if not more than the president did at that time.

A co-worker of mine had found out his mother was in a car accident while we were in an important meeting. There wasn't anything he could to help her right at that moment, but he excused himself to find out the severity and so that he can start to think about how he was going to get home. This is what I would expect from a president who heard we were under attack. I'd rather disrupt a classroom of kids rather than put any more lives in danger if I thought 1 second would matter.

 

[verte76]

I actually don't think this is much of an issue. As I understand it, Bush thought panicking would have been a really bad idea. It might have freaked the kids out. It was perhaps the weakest argument in Fahrenheit 9/11 to me.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I think that there is a large difference between responding to a loved one being in a car crash and leaving a meeting and having your security detail prepare a smoothly coordinated and timed evacuation for a leader. There would be nothing of concequince that Bush could do until he got to Air Force 1 and get the information about what was going on, the timing of preparing the plane and evacuation meant that he could either have waited in the classroom or waited in transit. I think that spending those brief few minutes considering what is going on and gaining some composure and deal with whats going on is a much better attribute for a leader than to jump up, leave and then be dealing with the attacks as the situation builds around him. I will track down some articles tomorrow on those minutes written by a teacher who was actually in the room at the time and thinks that his response was right and reflects in a positive manner.

You just called the president a coward, poor form.

 

[BVS]

You just called the president a coward, poor form.

Yes how dare me.

I didn't call him a coward, I said it was a cowardly mistake, and I still stand by that. Big difference, even the biggest heroes have made cowardly mistakes. So don't attack me and put words in my mouth please.

How long is that transit to AF1, was it parked outside of the school? 7 minutes, is 7 minutes and for the leader of the country to choose to be left in the dark while I myself probably knew more than he did makes absolutely no sence to me.

 

[kobayashi]

are some of you really accepting the idea that he didn't want to 'freak out' the children?

if he calculated that there was little he could do so he decided to stay put, that might make sense (though i think there are reasons to doubt his capacity to do that). but to not be right on top of his nation's worst national tragedy so that story time wasn't ruined is laughable. especially since he has spent the 35 months since scaring the living crap out of the kids, their parents, siblings, friends, enemies, post delivererererer...

 

[verte76]

are some of you really accepting the idea that he didn't want to 'freak out' the children?

if he calculated that there was little he could do so he decided to stay put, that might make sense (though i think there are reasons to doubt his capacity to do that). but to not be right on top of his nation's worst national tragedy so that story time wasn't ruined is laughable. especially since he has spent the 35 months since scaring the living crap out of the kids, their parents, siblings, friends, enemies, post delivererererer...

OK, perhaps this is a bit silly. I suppose one could say he was too nonchalant. When I found out about the attack on the WTC, I panicked myself because I have two sisters in New York City. One of them was living in Lower Manhattan at the time, actually not too far from the WTC! Fortunately she'd gone to work in Brooklyn. However, it took me three hours to get the news that they were OK. Those just might have been the longest three hours of my life. I was absolutely petrified, and I suppose a case could be made that Bush just should have put that book down and gone to see what in hell had happened. But I thought some other things in Fahrenheit 9/11 were stronger.

 

[Salome]

are some of you really accepting the idea that he didn't want to 'freak out' the children?

no, he probably didn't have a clue what to do and was pondering the effects this would have:
a. on the country and
b. on him

that's what I would prolly have done


I have never tried to make anyone think of me as a decisive leader

so that still the only 'story' there is for me

 

[nbcrusader]

Funny, few made an issue of this before Moore's film.

Great leadership is demonstrated by calm, deliberate action.



And 7 minutes did not change a thing.

 

[Salome]

if sitting in a chair staring into space like a zomby indicates calm deliberate action is being taking and therefore equals great leadership they would have made me the president of The Netherlands years ago

 

[pax]

I tend to agree with nbcrusader. I'm not sure what difference those seven minutes could have made. He probably wanted to finish what he came to do, step out as quietly and quickly as possible, and in fact have a few minutes to think and to ready himself. I really have no problem with that, since no one has tendered an argument for what more could have been accomplished in those minutes, beyond something for appearance's sake.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

He may have figured that if he got up and rushed out, the kids would be upset or confused

Exactly. And I can't say I'd blame him. My parents have always told me that in a situation where something bad is happening, the best thing to do is to remain as calm as you possibly can, because all panic does is create confusion and makes getting anything done even less probable than it already may be.

I honestly can accept this reasoning, kobayashi. I can also accept the idea that he was stunned. I mean, everyone likely still clearly remembers their reactions when they heard this news. I know it took me some time to register the whole thing in my head. Hell, it was still hard for me to wrap my mind around it for a good few days afterward, to be honest. The situation was just such a bizarre one, so a stunned reaction would be normal in my eyes. And hey, perhaps he was using some of that time to plan out how exactly he'd excuse himself, what he'd do once he left the room, etc., so as to, again, keep order and keep everyone calm.

Yeah. Out of all the things I could criticize Bush for, this is way, way down there on the list.

Angela

 

[ThatGuy]

President Bush has made his "strong leadership" a cornerstone of his campaign. The problem with those seven minutes is that they directly call into question his role as a "strong leader." True, he could not have accomplished much in those seven minutes, but a truly strong leader would not have sat there reading The Pet Goat for seven minutes. Can you think of any other presidency where that would be acceptable? Can you imagine if Bill Clinton had sat there for seven minutes? He would have been upbraided for it the next day, national unity be damned.

As to those who say that he stayed put because he didn't want to upset the children ... Surely there are more than two options when dealing with that situation. No one is seriously suggesting that the President should have stood up and ran out of the room screaming and flailing his arms and scaring the children. He could have calmly excused himself by telling the children that he was sorry, but something very important had come up and that he had to cut their visit short. True, it may have made the kids uncomfortable, but they were going to find out about the attacks soon anyway, right? Given the events of the day, the president cutting their visit short would be the least of their worries.

All that being said, I do think that relatively it's not that big of a deal. In the larger scheme of things it's nothing more than an interesting historical footnote, really.

 

[Dreadsox]

One of the proudest things I was ever a part of was the decision by our school to NOT make any announcements during the day about 9/11. We let them go through the day without the knowledge that theyr world was about to change dramatically.

The best part of that day was watching the kids leaving the school laughing and smiling as if it were any other day. Standing outside waving goodbye to them as the buses left the lot was a treasure for me and the members of the staff. The next day was a dark contrast to that moment.

I am baffled that this is somehow the issue du jour.

 

[nbcrusader]

One of the proudest things I was ever a part of was the decision by our school to NOT make any announcements during the day about 9/11. We let them go through the day without the knowledge that theyr world was about to change dramatically.

The best part of that day was watching the kids leaving the school laughing and smiling as if it were any other day. Standing outside waving goodbye to them as the buses left the lot was a treasure for me and the members of the staff. The next day was a dark contrast to that moment.

There is incredible wisdom in this.

On the west coast, many children arrived at school with the images of the towers in their heads. During flag deck (before classes started), my wife observed a negative mood among the children, with pushing and shoving - the kids were on edge. Throughout the day, the teachers had to remind the students that the attacks occurred far away from them.

I hope the kids in the Florida classroom spent the day with the same smiles and laughs as they did at your school Dread.

 

[ThatGuy]

Since Bush may have been a target it may have been more sensible to evacuate the school so as not to put the children at risk.

 

[nbcrusader]

If the terrorists had the intel to hit GWB in an elementary school in Florida during his relatively brief visit, then we have bigger troubles that this "7-minute issue".

 

[verte76]

I don't believe the terrorists knew where Bush was. It's no secret that there was another target in Washington besides the Pentagon. Thus the unfortunate plane crash in Pennsylvania. The rumor was that it was supposed to hit Congress, but it could have been aimed at the White House--who knows? Plus, I do think Bush took the approach that panicking would be bad strategy. If you're the President you have to be psyched up for a crisis situation, so I'm sure he was.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

First off, in response to ThatGuy's post...I can see where you're coming from with that explanation. Makes sense.

Second...

One of the proudest things I was ever a part of was the decision by our school to NOT make any announcements during the day about 9/11. We let them go through the day without the knowledge that theyr world was about to change dramatically.

The best part of that day was watching the kids leaving the school laughing and smiling as if it were any other day. Standing outside waving goodbye to them as the buses left the lot was a treasure for me and the members of the staff. The next day was a dark contrast to that moment.

Wow, really? My school didn't handle it like that at all.

I remember being in my math class a few minutes before the class officially started. All of a sudden, kids were coming in talking about a plane that had hit the WTC. And I was confused-at first, I thought it was just a horrific accident. And I remembered that the WTC was in New York City, and seeing as I'd just been to that city earlier in the year, that made it even weirder. I still had no clue of the full gist of what was going on, though. Then at 9 am, a lady came over the intercom and said, "Well, I guess you've all heard about what happened by now." Well, I hadn't, so I was hoping she'd tell me. And she did. And then my teacher turned on the radio and our class spent the period listening to it. And then I went to my drama and choir classes and spent both periods watching the news clips and stuff.

Unlike the kids nbcrusader mentioned, however, the kids at my school were pretty well-behaved about it all-they were just talking about it and everything, nobody was shoving anybody or stuff like that. A few kids made some stupid jokes about it all, but for the most part, everyone was pretty respectful and everything.

But yeah, we all knew about it the day it happened. That's kinda weird to hear that your school handled it that way, Dread.

Angela